Good People Made Evil

“We have seen

Good men made evil wrangling with the evil,

Straight minds grown crooked fighting crooked minds.”[1]

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

Racism can be considered another manifestation of unforgiveness in which a person is, by their choice, in Satan’s prison. This applies to the accuser & victim.

"Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ, lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices. " 2 Cor 2:10 & 11

Where did she get her original erroneous racist concept?

She was a typical conventional minded person who accepted without doing her own study…like most churchgoers who never have read much bible. Stats reveal 90% of churchgoers have never read the whole bible. So they just accept & parrot what their preachers teach. And so there are thousands of denominations in discord and just are followers of clergy…including those who died following JIM JONES.


The bias comes from the text—Be Ye not unequally yoked together. Skin Color has nothing to do with it.


There are many interesting points in this well written article. The one that called my attention more intensely was regarding discrimination, an issue that for me is mind boggling. The same question comes to my mind over and over again: “How come some committed Christians are discriminators? Isn’t ‘a Christian discriminator’ an oxymoron?”

One thing is terrifying: it appears that when a person gets the “discrimination bug,” they cannot get rid of it, cannot be cured of the disease. It’s alarming that not even exposure to the Gospel appears to be effective in operating a cure, a change of heart. It’s also frustrating seeing that kind of people occupying leadership (?) positions and contaminating their offices with discriminating potions. Unfortunately discrimination of women has been a “potion in motion” for a long time in our Church, and I am not sure it will ever be eliminated. If Ted Wilson is (hopefully) not re-elected, in 2020, I hope the new GC President will put this on the wall in front of him in his office:

Image result for images discriminating of women


Not always. Depends on what the object is.

Not for me. The gospel has no effect on those who reject grace.

Most churchgoers don’t even know what the gospel is.

I visited another NON SDA church SUNday and felt sorry for the deceived preacher and his congregation.

And not about the 4th commandment issue but because his soteriology is so warped.

Object? I am talking about people, not objects.
Oh…, I get it now… sometimes people are treated as mere objects, this is true…

There are good and bad preachers in any church, any denomination. Can’t generalize based on a small, maybe insignificant sample.


The discrimination engendered by homophobia is still rampant and pervasive in Adventism, fundamentalist Protestantism and also in Catholicism and Mormonism.

Regrettably it is fueled by homophobic texts in biblical scripture.

The Jewish Jehovah, the Christian God, and the Islamic Allah, all supposedly the same personhood, promotes hateful homophobia in all three branches of the religions He heads.

All other religions on the planet, not worshipping this supreme being —- Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism and others have no scriptural / doctrinal / theological injunctions against gays / lesbians.

The four to five per cent LGBT population on this planet, are all acutely aware that their innate sexual orientations had zero personal input nor choice.
This is heavily backed up by modern medicine, psychiatry and psychology — despite the very recent research finding no distinct gay gene.

Every gay / lesbian will be vehement in attesting they did not choose their sexual orientation. And if they were honest, their straight siblings and cousins would equally affirm that neither did they have personal input in being heterosexual…

So gays and lesbians have every right to demand of God why He creates them that way ( Satan has zero creative power ) and then He promotes persecution,
fuels fury,
harbors hatred and hostility,
and engenders gay bashing, gay bullying, and yes gay killings.

All promoted by those very explicit anti gay “proof texts “ in His Scriptures. .

What was He thinking when He allowed them in Scripture ?

He has promoted millennia of MISERY for gays in those geographic world areas where His religions predominate —- homophobia is largely absent in Asia where He has not brain washed the local populations.

The lady who denied the inter racial couple a wedding venue would have been even more vociferous in excluding a gay / lesbian couple.

Would her preacher have intervened to say that the biblical texts she was using to justify her actions, were false ??

It is a wonder that intuitive gay Christians would continue to worship a God who fosters such hatred and anger against them,
more particularly when they had zero choice in the way He created them.


Robin –
Literalists read the Bible and take what was translated as True.
Literalists Do Not Ask WHY and Under What Circumstances was
“that” written on parchment in the first place?
There were a number of things that were forbidden because they had
to do with Heathen Idol Worship DURING Heathen Idol Worship.
The position of the Sanctuary in the middle of the camp was Anti-Idol and
Fake God worship.
But they were prone to Fake Gods. Golden Calf with God on the mountain
belching smoke and dark clouds above talking to Moses.

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"Stats reveal 90% of churchgoers have never read the whole bible."

Link to study?

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Seriously. I’ve asked this before because it’s stated so often, but most people I know have and do read their Bible.


Regarding Gay persons wondering about an angry God.
It is True that this may be promoted and taught in our SDA Denomination.
However there are many Sunday communities who Welcome ALL and
Mean ALL. Showering ALL with the message of God’s Love to ALL.


I have also asked through the years with no answer(s). It is one of gideonjrn’s “talking points” with no proof other than his own opinion apparently. :slight_smile:


I don’t know of any stats on this either, but I have some anecdotal data. Some years ago I asked two different college honors classes I was teaching How many of them had read the Bible at least once. In one of the classes none of them had, and several claimed they had never even read an entire single book in the Bible. In the other class, I think I recall that one student had read the whole Bible (might have been none, but no more than 1). Both classes had about 10 students, so, not a great sample size.

On a related note, I do converse with a few hundred students in my classes each year, and it is the rare student who knows the Bible very well. Most students know where to find John 3:16 and Psalm 23, but cannot say where many other texts are to be found, such as things like “For all have sinned and fallen short,” or “seek you first the Kingdom of God . . .” Biblical literacy has dropped precipitously, as far as I can tell. Of course, maybe I am expecting too much. I have read the Bible many times and know exactly where to find many dozens of texts that I learned by memory when I was a teen. Maybe such knowledge is no longer considered useful? As far as I can tell, teens are no longer studying and memorizing scripture much at all. I cannot speak with the same personal knowledge about other adults, except those of my own age who grew up in the 60s and 70s, many of whom seem to have studied as diligently as I did.

OTOH, has such “better” exposure to Biblical truth made a difference in things such as racism and sexism? A significant number from my generation, who should know better, claim Biblical authority for considering women subservient and inferior to men. Most of my college students, with apparently less Biblical literacy, by and large believe that God has created men and women as equals and that women’s ordination should have happened many years ago throughout the denomination.


When I was in Church School 7th grade, we had 135 Memory Verses, and
we had an Ohio Conference Test at the end of the year on the Bible Class.
I knew all 135 memory verses.
In 9th 10th grade minimal memory verses in Bible Class.


I had much the same in 8th or 9th or a little of both. Mhy memory of exactly when is hazy, but i still remember many of the texts. My only regret is that they were referred to as “key texts,” which gives the wrong message about how such texts should be used. I still love knowing many of them today, many are Bible promises, and others are just plain good advice.


Interesting personal observation. Perhaps they stopped the Bible verse memorization at some point and time. I have no doubt that it has precipitously dropped off in the last decade or so. My beef with gideonjr. is that he is making a blanket statement and should be able to come up with some concrete “study/data” as he claims to exist.


Totally agree. Would be interesting to see such data if they had been gathered. Would be simple to survey. too. “Y or N Have you read the entire Bible at least once in your lifetime?”

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I shouldn’t have to do his “homework” but now I am curious to see if something exists…will look later. :smiley:


You are now obligated to report back. :wink:


Yes, Professor…will do! :wink: