GYC Annual Meeting Offers End-Time Inspiration and Outreach Opportunities

(George Tichy) #101

As human beings (which most of us are… :roll_eyes:…) we have the need “to belong.” When one spends many years in a certain community, deep roots are developed. They make us feel as “belonging.” It’s not easy to cut the ropes that keep us united to our Church of origin, or the Church of our youth.

So what happens when one deeply rooted person suddenly learns that his/her Church is imperfect and that they were probably even deceived at a certain point? This happened to me, big time, some 38 years ago. Believe me, it’s a brutal experience. Everyone will have a different resolution for the problem. Some people will feel better just leaving. Others will feel better re-adjusting, re-defining the relationship with the Church.

Before I write too much about it, my point is that everyone needs to find their niche, where they feel as belonging to. Where they are accepted and respected. It could be the same Church, another Denomination , or even none. It’s a very personal spiritual experience that nobody should criticize.


I get that but only to the extent where your core writing/belief is juxtaposed to those doctrines of which you are comparing of which none concur. IOW, we should be able to point out a persons viewpoint when it obviously contradicts that which he holds an allegiance to, shouldn’t we?

(Sirje) #103

Because there is no one group that has it all right. I have been to other churches and they don’t FEEL right. Not as in “correct”, but communally. I think it’s about family. After decades of being in a family, you don’t just kick your family members out of your life no matter what they believe. I have great love for the “individuals” in my past and present who happen to be Adventists; it’s the official Adventist line I have a problem with - in both word, and deed. Actually, I don’t need someone to preach at me on a weekly basis, no matter what they believe. Churches are much like political parties, and I’ve had enough of politics.

(Frank Peacham) #104

True LGT is “inaccurate,” for no one can be perfect, sinless in thought and action. But I disagree that it is “inauthentic.” Historically sincere Christians have put their trust in God, lived in faith and hope, while holding 100’s of different theological opinions. Calvinist with their beliefs in election, Shakers with their celibacy, Puritans with their extreme pious dress and life style codes, Catholics with their prayers to Virgin Mary etc etc.

In the judgment day, I believe, all these individuals of diverse doctrines, will pass into eternity due to their “authentic” faith and love. Not their doctrines. Devotion that creates love in the heart for God and others can not be confined to any specific set of doctrines. Each can be a very “authentic” religious experience that is warm and personal.

A sad aspect is that church leaders can use “inspired doctrine” to exploit others to their advantage. “In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories” (2 Peter 2:3). Young people are by nature very exployable even in political circles, as seen in the Chinese, the rise of Nazi youth movement and the Russian revolutions. Woe to the leaders that use this to their advantage for political, personal and financial advantage.

(Frank Peacham) #105

It is good to accept the noteworthy things about LGT beliefs. These youth will return to their homes with an open heart to listen to the voice of God and follow Jesus.

This being said, there are aspect about the LGT that are disconcerting. Such as the total inspiration of EGW as if it were the voice of God, which is a strong supporter of the premus we can overcome all sin, even our inherited traits.

(Frank Peacham) #106

To me it is amazing that God can speak to human hearts in real and genuine ways, around the globe to billions of individuals. They live in diverse cultures with customs and traditions that we would find impossible to embrace–yet their hearts are set on God. I can’t accept the premise of LGT beliefs, but I cannot deny that God seems to ignore its claims and inhabit the soul of the sincere believers.

(André Reis) #107

I have asked Eric Louw in a pastors’ group whether GYC is ready to repudiate LGT and he gave evasive answers. My conclusion is that the leadership is not ready to do so, especially when many (all?) in their leadership, as well as their donors at ASI and Ted Wilson are fully supportive of both GYC and LGT.

Until GYC fully repudiates LGT, they will continue to be seen as a perfectionistic independent ministry as reported by insiders and my own analysis on Spectrum a few years ago. The ball is on their court.

(George Tichy) #108

I already asked the question here in this thread, and so far I believe there was no answer at all. Very suspicious, almost truly revealing…

It’s interesting that some of those LGTarians who came here, when I asked if they supported LGT, would often say, “I don’t know what LGT is.” Only to confirm, by their comments, that they knew very well what it is. Is this hypocrisy or a straight lie?

(André Reis) #109


LGTarians! Are they on the “Low Grace Theology” diet? :slight_smile:

(Tim Teichman) #110

It seems between the ultra conservatives and church leadership (same thing?) there’s a lot of lying going on, or at least misdirection. Not sure why they behave this way.


One of the most effective communication techniques for persuasion is vagueness, ambiguity, and generalities.

I see this played out, in addition to an approach of “I have no idea what you are talking about.”

In other words, perhaps some perfectionists do not connect the dots to Last Generation Theology.

(Al21c) #112

What you wrote is further confirmation to me of my decision in the past few weeks to “separate” from the SDA Church. The contradictions and recent policy decisions are just too offensive to my beliefs and conscience.

I have finally reached that cross road after more than 50 years. Thank you for clarification. It helps me.



The recent policies and punishment plans bring serious pause for many who follow how things are progressing. At this point, I predict that thousands are on watch for how things move forward.


Can you show us how you arrived to this conclusion…


Beyond disconcerting. Downright depressing and the root cause for eventually throwing out God completely for many. Perfectionism has got to be one of the most devious approaches to God ever–since it is impossible in this life to reach the perfection of Christ. Perfectionism is the polar opposite of Christ’s grace and denies His sacrifice on the cross for our sins.


Or to put it another way, perfectionism is toxic to Christianity.

“Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped and insane your whole life, and it is the main obstacle between you and a s***** first draft. I think perfectionism is based on the obsessive belief that if you run carefully enough, hitting each stepping-stone just right, you won’t have to die. The truth is that you will die anyway and that a lot of people who aren’t even looking at their feet are going to do a whole lot better than you, and have a lot more fun while they’re doing it.”
― Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life.


“Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.” (Leviticus 23:3)

“And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.” (Acts 13:42)

“And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God” (Acts 13:44)

“For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.” (Acts 15:21)

All these texts show that the people gather together on the sabbath day as it is a holy convocation.

I wonder why this would be salvation by works.


You said that you have been an Adventist all your life. If this is the case, you should understand all of this. :slightly_smiling_face:

(George Tichy) #118

Our allegiance should be to the Christian faith, not to a denominations. I can see how difficult it must be to be an Adventist if one lives in a region where there are only Ultra-conservative churches. Just a conservative church would be very difficult to deal with because a conservative Adventist is usually very intransigent and intolerant, with a strong inclination for religious arrogance and rejection of diversity of thinking.

I don’t know how could I enjoy a Seventh-Day Adventist Church if I lived in a place like that. I have the blessing of living in an area where there is a lot of respect, open-mildness, and common sense (Riverside/Loma Linda). I would most probably have to join a church of another denomination. But, around here, I have no problem in attending a church of a denomination that I have my roots in for over 60 years.

(Tim Teichman) #119

The list is primarily based on behavior, when including respect and commitment as outward behaviors.

It requires adherents to seek holiness, to pray daily, to have proper decorum, to seek ‘godly relationships’ (?), preserve purity (virginity?), be healthful, dress properly, be reverent, choose the right recreation activities (?), actively suck up to and defend the corporate church, be humble, cordial, follow the word, and so on.

These are all works, most are external works. They are not statements of faith.

They could be a list of goals for pharisaical Law followers in the old testament, who sought salvation through perfection by carefully following the Law. People like Paul, before his conversion and subsequent renunciation of the Law as a path to salvation.


Here it comes again… Always a problem to be found…

It seems that the purpose of you, guys, is to find problems in the SDA church. If they do something then you wonder why they do this rather than that. If they don’t do something then you wonder why they don’t do it. If it is white you criticize it because you think it should have been black. If it is black then it should have been white.

Damned if they do. Damned if they don’t.

It seems that nitpicking is a favorite pastime. Maybe it is time for some people here to have a hard look at themselves and wonder if God put them on earth just to do that.