Homosexuality: Are We Cloaking Bigotry with Scripture?

(reliquum) #331

Fixed it for you Traci, say it straight please!

Global language much, coupled with uncanny prescience, to so well know others
“thoughts and consideration”

Are you saying we all have “the carnal nature” of “LGBTQ expression”?
Or did you toss that canard at the end so it seems you are not practising a veiled bigotry?

I suspect Jesus died for all who need salvation.

Even those of us who pray “thank God you did not make me an ̶s̶i̶n̶n̶e̶r̶ LGBTQ
Matter of fact he may even include us hetero folk who think we don’t walk on a path that leads to destruction.

We can do better.

(Traci Richards) #332

We all have a carnal nature to die to. Appears to me though, as it’s not discussed in these types of articles or the following comments on these types of articles, that LGBTQ have no struggle with the carnal nature. Their base desires are accommodated and even called good and normal. No one says its ok to be drunk, or a fornicator, or a liar…but its ok to practice your homosexual desires…those desires were created by God according to the article. The Bible does not support homosexual relations anywhere. Is it any worse then any other sin? No its not! I am sold under sin too…but i don’t try and coerce others into condoning my sinfulness or rationalize the sins i commit.


So, Traci, you believe there is no possibility that those who are gay were born that way? You believe they chose to be gay as a result of their wicked/carnal choice to sin?

You believe that they chose to live a “lifestyle” of rebellion and sin?

You believe there is no possibility of a genetic pre-birth testosterone wash in utero that a baby does not choose? Or other genetic possibilities?

You believe those who have committed suicide from frustration to change themselves through conversion therapy, prayer, “trying,” were just overcome by their carnal nature and failed because they didn’t submit to God enough as a sinner? You believe these tragedies are a result of rationalizing sin?

Did you choose your own gender identity?

@bigtomwoodcutter @Timo @elmer_cupino @GeorgeTichy

(Traci Richards) #334

Nope…do not believe its genetic as there is no proof that it is. Many scientists and psychologists now report it as a body dysphoria like anorexia.Sign. Leviticus 18:22 is very clear about how God sees homosexual behavior. People committing suicide who have a mental illness is truly heart breaking, but is sadly not unusual. A man who desires and is attracted to other men do have a choice, just as the married man does when he sees another woman and desires her. We are all the same when it comes to resisting and overcoming our carnal nature…its called dieing to self.

(George Tichy) #335

I honestly hope that you are aware that there is a big difference between “being” homosexual and “practicing homosexual” acts. If this distinction is not considered, much confusion, unnecessary deplorable attacks, and unfairness against the gay community may be generated.

I wrote my post above before reading your post #327, which has ideas that I find lamentable.

There at least four Adventist mental health professionals participating here on this site. I wonder if any one of them agrees with your statement and your belief that, “Nope…do not believe its genetic as there is no proof that it is. Many scientists and psychologists now report it as a body dysphoria like anorexia.” By the way, that link you offered appears to be some kind to a “proof” but it does not allow access to any specific article.

I am one of the four MH professionals, and I do no agree with your “belief.” Facts indicate and support a diametrically opposed direction. I wonder what my other three mental health colleagues will comment regarding your belief. @pattigrant @cincerity @elmer_cupino

(Traci Richards) #336

I think I clarified my obvious knowledge of that fact in my last sentence. And truly…I am only worried about one community…the community we will join in heaven and that we are prepared for our Heavenly home. The gay community is not a bunch of people who are abstaining from their sexual desires…hopefully you do know that. Do I care what that community thinks or says or if they are offended in any way by the the Word of God…Nope…not at all!! “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Heb. 4:12. To call sin sin is right. I am a sinner who has had to call my sins by their right name…it’s a painful reality to face. If one does not face it head on as the Bible tells us too…we will be overcome by it.

(Traci Richards) #337

Sorry that the link was clipped somehow…here is the short article from the American Psychiatric Assoc. " What Is Gender Dysphoria?

Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person’s physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify. People with gender dysphoria may be very uncomfortable with the gender they were assigned, sometimes described as being uncomfortable with their body (particularly developments during puberty) or being uncomfortable with the expected roles of their assigned gender.

People with gender dysphoria may often experience significant distress and/or problems functioning associated with this conflict between the way they feel and think of themselves (referred to as experienced or expressed gender) and their physical or assigned gender.

The gender conflict affects people in different ways. It can change the way a person wants to express their gender and can influence behavior, dress and self-image. Some people may cross-dress, some may want to socially transition, others may want to medically transition with sex-change surgery and/or hormone treatment. Socially transitioning primarily involves transitioning into the affirmed gender’s pronouns and bathrooms.

People with gender dysphoria may allow themselves to express their true selves and may openly want to be affirmed in their gender identity. They may use clothes and hairstyles and adopt a new first name of their experienced gender. Similarly children with gender dysphoria may express the wish to be of the opposite gender and may assert they are (or will grow up to be) of the opposite gender. They prefer, or demand, clothing, hairstyles and to be called a name of the opposite gender. (Medical transition is only relevant at and after the onset of puberty.)

Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender nonconformity, which refers to behaviors not matching the gender norms or stereotypes of the gender assigned at birth. Examples of gender nonconformity (also referred to as gender expansiveness or gender creativity) include girls behaving and dressing in ways more socially expected of boys or occasional cross-dressing in adult men. Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder. Gender dysphoria is also not the same being gay/lesbian.

While some children express feelings and behaviors relating to gender dysphoria at 4 years old or younger, many may not express feelings and behaviors until puberty or much later. For some children, when they experience puberty, they suddenly find themselves unable to identify with their own body. Some adolescents become unable to shower or wear a bathing suit and/or undertake self-harm behaviors.

(Traci Richards) #338

Oh…and no I did not choose my gender…God did!

(George Tichy) #339

There is so much mixing in your statements that I have the impression that even gender dysphoria is being compared (or equated) with the homosexual condition. It appears that your level of specific knowledge in this area is very limited; but you still make statements that are expected to have any credibility anyways.

Considering these facts, I would rather exempt myself from a continued dialogue on this issue. Blessings.

(Elmer Cupino) #340

If this were true Traci, (since you said “We are all the same.”) I take it you ALSO struggled in choosing between a male and female as the object of your sexual drives until you finally decided to settle with a man. Is this true? What does this tell you?

(Tim Teichman) #341

Huh? Sure they do. Lots and lots of people think it’s just fine to drink even to excess, to fornicate, and to lie when it is convenient. And if you need things to steal them.

For example, it appears that the Republican party is very OK with a self-professed sexual predator who lies constantly and cheats on his wives - as their leader!

It also does not support our western ideas of romance and marriage. It does very explicitly support the idea of women as property, owned and controlled by men. This is an idea that remains very much alive in the world - specially within the cultures that spawned the books of our bible. It also supports polygamy quite explicitly, and reports positively of harems of wives and slave girls held by the leaders selected by God - the bigger the harem, the more powerful the King!

(Elmer Cupino) #342

The ten commandments prohibit husbands from coveting their next door neighbor’s wife but the ten commandments does not prohibit wives from coveting their next door neighbor’s husband.

(George Tichy) #343

AKA The Grabber in Chief!.. :wink:

(Tim Teichman) #344

Yes, because in the bible women are property.

(Kim Green) #345

"I am a sinner who has had to call my sins by their right name…"

Traci, what are your sins?

(JRStovall) #346

My opinion, when persons use the Bible in an attempt to support their views agains LBGT,etc, I would suggest they are sining in the Biblical sense also. Untruthfulness!! Why? They are not asking to ‘discriminate’ agaisnt all the other types of sinners in the Bible. They wish to hide their own brand of bigotry behind Bible verses. Is that not a sin of untruthfulness?

What we need in discussions like these, my opinion, more open honesty.

(Kim Green) #347

What happens when an individual is born with both male and female “parts”? Did God make a mistake in creating them in this fashion? What is their “gender”?

(Tim Teichman) #348

Note specifically these lyrics, which represent an interesting outlook, somewhat more accepting of grace, perhaps:

“I’ve never been a sinner. I’ve never sinned! I’ve got a friend in Jesus! So you know that when I die, he’s gonna set me up with the spirit in the sky! I’m going to go to the place that’s the best!”

(Kim Green) #349

Love this song…a fav!

(Kim Green) #350

Yes, you are correct…it is always that other’s sins are more heinous and more worthy of condemnation.