Homosexuality: Are We Cloaking Bigotry with Scripture?

(reliquum) #471

I venture this little fact may indeed be indicative of the excess protest by many regarding what bed someone sleeps in.

Fixed it for ya, doc. I’m pretty certain though that in your schooling you may have missed a couple of lessons, glad we can help though!!

(Kim Green) #472

I am also curious about where Allen is going with the “gender fluidity” concept. Sure, there can be “experimentation” with some individuals but they end up sexually where there is the greatest biological “pull”. Those who can go back and forth between male/female partners easily are simply Bi.

(Kim Green) #473

" thinking of someone else (male of female"

Or…cat, dog, inanimate objects…to just round out the list a bit more. :wink:

(reliquum) #474

I had a friend who named his dog “fetish”…

(Kim Green) #475

lol…hopefully not because of “attraction”…not that I am trying to judge (he and the dog might be very happy together). :wink:

(George Tichy) #476

I can’t imagine that it could include even a bull, “el toro!”… Well, maybe those “toreadores” have a great experience in bed later on… :rofl: I can’t imagine how “El Matador” feels sleeping with a bull… :innocent: Can they actually also have nightmares in which the bull yells, “Revenge?”… :roll_eyes:

(Kim Green) #477

Toro, Toro…Viva el Toro! :rofl:

(George Tichy) #478

I have a friend who is a famous and very courageous “toreador.” Every time he goes to a restaurant, he says, “Que venga el toro, pero que venga en BIFES”.
(Let the bull come, but come in BEEFS) … :rofl:

(reliquum) #479

Attraction, yes, but to humor!

(Steve Mga) #480

George –
Did you notice the guy with the red cape?
He looks like he is doing a “dance” movement.
Notice the angle of the body, how the feet are in a particular position,
his left arm and even his left hand?
By the way – are COWS colorblind like some other animals?

(Kevin Seidel) #481

What I’ve read is that cattle have bicolor vision rather than the tricolor vision humans have. So not black and white, but not full color vision.

(Tim Teichman) #482

This is the sort of thing that can be determined methodologically and scientifically with no need for opinion.

What do you base your thoughts on? A gut feeling? Personal experience?

There are of course people who self-describe as bi-sexual, who play for both teams. But that in no way means that those that identify as homosexual are any more flexible than those that identify as heterosexual.


A proclivity to alcoholism. Musicianship. Athletics. Academics. Yes

But homosexuality is not a proclivity. It is like being born with green eyes. Left-handedness. Long fingers. Female. Male. For the leopard–spots. There is a difference and it does not include choice.

That seems to be the difference between our views. You believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.

How many have you spoken to, had as patients, or parishioners? They would never in a million years choose homosexuality, as @bigtomwoodcutter has so told us his own experience.

To say that people choose to be suicidial because of their unchosen sexual orientation is like saying a leopard can by choice erase his or her spots.

Perhaps it is time to re-study the sheet dropped from heaven in the dream Peter had on the housetop. Symbolic, for sure. But maybe it includes some lessons for us directly for today.

(Allen Shepherd) #484

I think it is not so genetically determined. Greenberg, after describing the homosexual practices of some of the tribes in New Guinea (He also studied several cultures practices, ancient Greek, Hebrew, American Indian, etc), makes the following observation. Some tribes practice universal homosexual behavior at certain points in life, while others have no homosexuality practiced among them at all:

“The years some homosexuals spend trying without success to conform to conventional expectations regarding gender and sexual orientation tell against the most extreme claims of sexual plasticity. However in the absence of any evidence linking the peculiar sexual practices of Melanesia with genetic difference, it is reasonable to suppose that if a bunch of Melanesian infants were to be transported in infancy to the US and adopted, few would seek out the pederastic relationships into which they are inducted in New Guinea, or take younger homosexual partners when they reached maturity. Similarly, American children raised in New Guinea would accommodate themselves to the Melanesian practices. Where social definitions of appropriate and inappropriate behavior are clear and consistent, with positive sanctions for conformity and negative ones for nonconformity, virtually everyone will conform irrespective of genetic inheritance and, to a considerable extent, irrespective of personal psychodynamics.” The Construction of Homosexualities pg 487 David Greenberg.

You misread my statement. I think it is a proclivity, but a strong one. Most with it choose to go along, and of course habit makes our proclivities even stronger.

It is interesting that you mention the leopard and its spots, as Jeremiah mentions our inability to change our sinful habits just as the leopard cannot change his spots. Do you then insist that we cannot in any way be converted?

The problem here is the issue of the flesh. I have my own proclivities as some have pointed out. We all do. And we can live after them.

But Paul says this in Rm 8:5 “Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.”

And there are several places where the acts of the flesh are listed in the NT: 1 Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5:19-21, Rm 13:13, Rev 21:8. Homosexual practice is cited among them.

We are all sinners after the flesh. But if we will not live by the Spirit, we are lost.

(George Tichy) #485

Sorry Steve, I never asked them this question, so I have no clue… LOL :innocent:

(George Tichy) #486

Allen @ajshep has so far demonstrated extreme difficulty understanding this issue. Actually, he may not have ever talked to any gay person about these issues; but he puts his biased opinions above everything else. There is not much we can do for him.

(Kevin Seidel) #487

So back to the old joke: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
(Click triangle for punch line)

Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

(George Tichy) #488

Have to ask @elmer_cupino… LOL
We, Psychologists, don’t have this information available yet… :rofl:

(Elmer Cupino) #489

One. But the lightbulb must want to be changed.:rofl:


(Patrick Travis) #490

Is change possible? :rofl:

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