Homosexuality: Are We Cloaking Bigotry with Scripture?


(David) #531

Meaning that overcoming temptation is difficult.

If it were easy, we’d all be doing it and the gate would be wide.


(Allen Shepherd) #532

It would be a case by case basis. I have found that people usually seek a counselor that will tell them what they want to hear. As far as Charles’ marriage goes, there is much that was not said, and it sounds like he was willing to continue and she was not, so that the orientation part was not the main problem, at least for him. So, it would be a marriage with problems like a lot of other ones.

God in Malachi said he hated divorce. So, what do we do with that? Paul also speaks of the sexual component of human nature and the way sex changes the relationship of humans who share that act. Our society has become flippant about it. That does not mean that it is not a destructive thing to break it up. And there are destructive marriages as well. If you wish to take God out of the equation you may do as you please, but as Galiman said, the gate is wide that leads to destruction.

I never said he gave up his orientation. He still had it as he said. But he was acting against it.

I have sinful flesh. It’s impulse is to do things God forbids. It is not easy to resist. I fall to sin frequently. I know the problem

But to say, “Well, it is difficult, and you should just follow where your nature leads you.”, would be to release folk to hell.

There was a tune from the musical “Oklahoma!”, “Doin’-a What Comes Natr’ally”. A very insightful comment on human nature. As a minister I am called to warn against such behavior. You see it as hypocrisy, but I am not holding anyone to a standard than one I hold myself to, the Biblical imperatives.

Your welcome to do as you wish. I will take the heat from you, but there may be other heat to face as well.


(George Tichy) #533

Then there are those unstoppable, compulsive liars that will tweet tens of lies daily even if no questions are asked… :roll_eyes:


(Kim Green) #534

"If you wish to take God out of the equation you may do as you please, but as Galiman said, the gate is wide that leads to destruction."

You need to stop complaining (about 'heat") with judgmental statements such as this, Allen.

"You see it as hypocrisy, but I am not holding anyone to a standard than one I hold myself to, the Biblical imperatives."

Yes, you do, Allen…you pick and choose which “sins” you rail against. You simply don’t see the hypocrisy in it.

"Your welcome to do as you wish. I will take the heat from you, but there may be other heat to face as well."

What heat? And yes, you are welcome to your opinions also…and there are consequences to them as well. You don’t speak for God.


(Kim Green) #535

It is the power of “persuasion and propaganda” such as we see on this site as well. There are those here that self-righteously declare that they are persecuted for having the “right” opinions. Pretty unbelievable!


(George Tichy) #536

Elmer:
Maybe sometimes people use a word without actually realizing it’s meaning. It may be an educational issue. Therefore, let’s go to the dictionaries, to do some educational work…

I just Googled, “fool synonyms,” and this was more than enough…

Fool
noun
1. 1.
a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person.
"what a fool I was to do this"

**synonyms: idiot, ass, halfwit, nincompoop, blockhead, buffoon, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, cretin, imbecile, dullard, moron, simpleton, clod; **
**informal dope, ninny, chump, dimwit, nitwit, goon, dumbo, dummy, dum-dum, dumbbell, loon, jackass, bonehead, fathead, numbskull, dunderhead, chucklehead, knucklehead, muttonhead, pudding-head, thickhead, wooden-head, airhead, pinhead, lamebrain, peabrain, birdbrain, zombie, jerk, nerd, dipstick, donkey, noodle; **
**informal nit, numpty, twit, clot, goat, plonker, berk, prat, pillock, wally, git, wazzock, divvy, nerk, twerp, charlie, mug, muppet; **
**informal nyaff, balloon, sumph, gowk; **
**informal gobdaw; **
informal schmuck, bozo, boob, lamer, turkey, schlepper, chowderhead, dumbhead, goofball, goof, goofus, galoot, dork, lummox, klutz, putz, schlemiel, sap, meatball, gink, cluck, clunk, ding-dong, dingbat, wiener, weeny, dip, simp, spud, coot, palooka, poop, squarehead, yo-yo, dingleberry;
**informal wing nut; **
informal drongo, dill, alec, galah, nong, bogan, poon, boofhead;
**informal mompara; **
**vulgar slang knobhead; **
**vulgar slang asshat; **
archaic tomfool, noddy, clodpole, loggerhead, spoony, mooncalf
"you’ve acted like a complete fool"

I don’t know most of these words, but the few ones I know should be enough to get a huge apology if a person called me those names. (I duly apologize to all for posting so many bad names… but I have no choice, maybe it’s the only way to educate some people…)

AND, Allen, @ajshep next time you think of complaining “ad hominem” when a person just disagrees with you, offer a prayer thanking God that nobody ever called you a fool here at Spectrum. Well,… there is no pulpit here, so that maybe why, UH?..


(George Tichy) #537

I agree 100% on this. “Temptation” is difficult.

I will try an experiment with my dog: I will start telling her, let’s stop your temptation to eat meat, let’s try VEGAN from now on. They say you are a carnivore, but this may be just your “temptation.” Let’s go with the healthy thing from now on: lettuce, bananas, almond milk, BS cheese, and lots of water with lemon juice. This way I don’t have to buy extra food to meet your “temptation,” I already have all those things at home for myself anyway.

Do I need to say more about “temptation” vs. nature? Hopefully not!


(George Tichy) #538

Shhhh, calm down; don’t do it to your nerves… I know, Allen’s poking rhetoric ends up irritating us because after a while it becomes completely judgmental and really “ad hominem.” But you only get this is you keep trying reasoning with him. At a certain point, it’s better to just quit, even if you feel a “fool” doing this… :roll_eyes: (Sorry, I didn’t find an emoji for “fool” to insert here… lol)

And, regarding that “heat,” don’t worry, Allen @ajshep may think/preach differently, but there is actually no hell!!! Believe me, believe me… :wink:


(Kim Green) #539

Yes…I understand that “reasoning/logic” is ultimately futile. :laughing:


(reliquum) #540

Thats easy, its gender dependent…if its a gay relationship, always/immediately.
If hetero, then never…


(Kim Green) #541

I always knew that you were an intelligent gent! :wink: You got the “formula” down pat.


#542

Agree.

What is your meaning in the context of this discussion?

I could, in the same spirit, post in the context of this discussion:

Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.

1 Peter 3:8 (NIV)


(Allen Shepherd) #543

Oh? This thread is about homosexual practice. It is about the only topic like this on this site. Shall I tell you that pride and arrogance, gluttony and sloth are sinful and will all result in judgement? They will. If you want to speak about them, lets. But to say I choose the ones is ridiculous. This is what the thread is about.

Do you? How would we know who does? What is your judgement on the matter? “How do yo read?” as Jesus said.

Romans 8:6-8 NIV
The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of he flesh cannot please God.

OK, so is practicing gay sex living after the flesh, or after the Spirit, and how would we decide that? You seem to feel it is really unsympathetic to see it as fleshly, and judgemental, even un-Christian. But if it is living after the flesh, would it not be not wise to warn someone living that way to be carful? In fact, showing sympathy?

I think you here need to show that living this way is OK, and show by what standard you chose to decide that. And by what authority do you make such a determination?


(Elmer Cupino) #544

Perhaps the circumcision issue can shed some insight.

I Corinthians 7:19 “Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.”

So “after the flesh” (matters of the flesh) is not what matters but “keeping God’s commands is what counts” (spiritual matters.) If one were born with gender dysphoria the “person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them” just as those born without gender dysphoria.

Why can’t this reasoning be applied across the board inclusive of all? Paul the apostle used it, why can’t we?


(Patrick Travis) #545

Elmer, circumcision isnt a behavior it is a physical state. If one has gender dysphoria no one is asking them to change their physical state. Some churches simply ask if they are willing to follow the behavior outlined in scripture.


(David) #546

What ever you do George, don’t feed him any of those Loma Linda link sausages. He’ll never go back to meat!


(David) #547

Sorry, I thought it was self explanatory.

I see gay sex as a sin and the desire for it as a source of temptation. That temptation needs to be resisted in the same way that the temptation to commit adultery is resisted. Hence my statement, “overcoming temptation is difficult”.

You may disagree but that’s how I see it. I’m obligated to defend what God says in the bible. If I wasn’t, I might as well join the world.


#548

I fed ours a roast (add water to a seafood/fish vegetarian mix in a can) when we couldn’t stomach it. She broke out in huge silver-dollar size welts all over her body. Got her into the vet who asked: “Has she eaten anything unusual?”

“Oh! Yes, actually.”

Vet: “Well, don’t give her any more of that ever again.”


(Patrick Travis) #549

He’ll never eat again! Dont try it! :joy:


(Elmer Cupino) #550

But what is outlined is specific as in I Corithians 7:19 "Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.”

If you and I were to wake up in a different world tomorrow and be told that we were to give up our heterosexuality as it is considered a “sin,” (see David’s post @Galiman ) I don’t know what you would do but I know what I will do. I’d tell the proselytes to keep their God but give me a female wife because that is what God made me.