Thank-you for commenting and sharing your story. The problem (as I see it) is that there has always existed a “Totem Pole Of Sin”. Unfortunately, we are all sinners and no one is “better” than another created being. Some just haven’t evolved in their own spiritual maturity to understand this yet.
LOL…I have often wondered why some of them went “Down Under”.
Ha! Yes… this could be modified.
Excuse me. They are not welcome Down Under.
Down Under is a real place.
They just fell off the edge.
You rightly state that :
THE FUNDAMENTALIST BIBLE THUMPERS OF TODAY GET AWAY WITH USING THE WRITINGS OF PAUL AS ECCLESIASTICAL CLUBS.
You bet they do!
The Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Salvation Army and yes even the Adventists use these Pauline quotes as cruel cudgels to club their LGBT offspring.
Even though modern science increasingly informs us that our LGBT children have zero input / choice / selection as to their innate sexual orientation . — neither do our heterosexual offspring knowingly elect to be straight.
The Catholics are vehemently anti gay, while tolerating overt pedophilia in their clergy!
GO FIGURE !
The denomination that is least Christian, because they do not believe that Christ was part of the Godhead — the UNITARIAN UNIVERSALISTS —-are the church group that is the most accepting. / loving / inclusive of their gay / lesbian members!
GO FIGURE !
Why were these odious, obnoxious diatribes written by a self loathing homosexual ( Paul ) included in the Christian canon ?
They certainly have been catastrophic for Christian gays — creating shunning, shaming, gay bashings, gay bullying and yes even gay killings.
No wonder the suicide rate among gay teens is through the roof.
Not to mention alcoholism and other escape mechanisms due to cruel constant condemnation from fellow Christians.
Our gay presidential candidate Mayor Pete, proclaims that as a closeted gay Christian teen, he would have taken any pill / potion, ,attempted any arduous act, if only he could have converted from gay to straight!
Being a gay adolescent is a painful, poignant, poisonous pilgrimage.
The Buddhists, Hindus, Confucians, Shintos and Taoists, have zero hateful homophobia in their scriptural underpinnings.
Why is it that only the believers in God / Jehovah. / Allah— ———fundamentalist Christians / Orthodox Jews. / Radical Islamists are so hatefully homophobic??
QUESTION : Was GOD, allegedly omniscient / all knowing, not aware since time immemorial, that the gays / lesbians He created had zero input / choice / selection in their innate same sex orientations ?
Although our modern insights into homosexuality are recent, surely God knew the facts?
So why did He allow such overt homophobia in His Scriptures and why did He tolerate such hateful homophobia among His followers ??
INHO only a cruel SADISTIC God,
would create five per cent of the population gay,
instill them with the identical sex hormone levels
( and therefore sex drives )
as their straight siblings and cousins,
and then demand that they be asexual and lonely their entire lives.
And furthermore a God who promotes vicious, venomous, vengeful attacks on these innocent gay victims, with provocatively poisonous anti gay texts / slurs in His Scriptures ?
Makes me want to transit to Buddhism — a religion of love / compassion / charity for all and with no doctrinal / Scriptural discrimination against mankind.
LOL…okay…a REAL place!
fear. of the world, the government, the church. love casts out fear. can’t recommend walking the bridge less canyon enough
I respect Dr. Zwemer even when I sometimes disagree with him.
Pretty much all should be offered fellowship by the church. All are entitled to that and should be welcomed.
Secondly, it is waste of intellectual energy to try and use a handful of Biblical quotes to support modern social positions on marriage, sexuality etc any more than slavery.
BUT, we don’t need the Bible for that, we have thousands of years of community and in more recent decades, incontrovertible evidence of the psychological value of traditional family life in terms of identity, self worth etc etc. The evidence in science of a few worms etc is a furphy and irrelevant.
Let’s not demonize gay or trans people but I draw the line at the raising of children in such circumstances. For decades we were told of the difficulties faced by inner city youth with abscent fathers, the need of rough play by dads in setting boundaries (like many species) and the identity issues faced by adopted children for example (as wonderful a plan as this is, albeit not the first choice), something we intuitively understand. This in no way takes away from or diminishes the role of wonderful adoptive parents that most children wouldn’t change for the world.
Social scientists today though, seem to need to discredit all their predecessors work in exchange for woke “studies” based of a few survey questions.
We ponder the reasons for the emotional fragility, lack of resilience and increasing rates of juvenile depression, anxiety and suicide. Let’s see what happens when we really screw with gender balanced family life and identity on top of whatever it is that we are already doing wrong.
It wasn’t too long ago that would have agreed with you. But I changed my mind. There is a lesbian married couple in my church who have a very well adjusted teenage daughter, and two foster boys. they do foster care and oftentimes they bring other children they are caring for to church. They are a shining example of family values if ever there was one. How many homes with young sons are headed by single moms these days? It’s not an ideal situation, but there is certainly no vilifications by religionist against them.
The question that begs to be asked is what is preferable, a child adopted into a loving home of a gay couple, or a child that is warehoused in an orphanage who has no home? I think the answer is obvious. Please ponder this scenario Andrew, and give it some consideration.
Modern science allows lesbian women ( and even straight, single women ) to avail themselves of fertility methods that allow for biological babies using donor sperm.
Similarly, many gay men who wish to be fathers, can avail themselves of surrogate mothers to produce their own biological offspring.
These recnics are increasingly prevalent— you no longer need to adopt kids nor to have foster children to become fathers and mothers, if you are a single straight person , or in a gay / lesbian relationship.
These fertility procedures are expensive so only the affluent can afford them.
These children born into affluent households will be loved, cared for and adequately raised — maybe better than children raised in ghettos or barrios, with absent fathers and impoverished circumstance…
Does the article refer to the CONDITION of bigotry or the INTERPRETATION of scripture?
Do you think that UNDERSTANDING the scriptures is a choice?
A simple YES or NO will suffice.
If you want a “yes” or “no” response, it doesn’t help if the question is framed as and “either or.”
I will gladly answer your questions AFTER you answer mine first.
Remember that I was not referring to the article when I asked you the questions. I was referring to YOUR assertion about sexual deviancy.
It is time that more folks stand up and call a Spade a Spade. When it quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Yes, we use Scripture to cover up a lot of Bigotry in our church community. God gets used to justify hate.
The Roman Empire was very good at stamping out things they found troubling. Things like upstart cults or slave uprisings. Paul had to walk the fine line gentile and jew and be respectable in the eyes of the Romans. That is why slaves should serve their masters. Nothing would have end the church faster than Romans seeing them as instigating a slave rebellion. But Paul was subversive. Husbands were to love their wives and not vex their children. Masters were to be kind to their slaves.
The examples of homosexuality from Greek and Roman culture are not things that we would accept today. These were what Paul would have known and condemned. Not recognizing this context has created much pain and cause many to reject the church.
But to suggest that requires one understands the difference between consensual peer to peer relationships and what the greeks and romans actually did…
seems most just don’t care to know, preferring instead to be told by “an authority” (who should know beter) what they need to revile. Unsurprisingly, the sheep comply.
In other words Jesus and the Gospel writers all got it wrong and we’d rather go to the ICD to find the truth? Gimme a break… or read “The Bondage Breaker” by Neil T. Anderson. It explains that even ordinary diseases that we would never imagine to be demonic can be caused (at least occasionally) by evil spirits.