How Healthy is Adventist Eschatology? A Missiological Imbalance (Part 6)


(James Peterson) #221

That’s true. What’s in a name? It’s all SDA.

All of Christianity has taken a side on the issue: Saturday or Sunday. I’ve always asked this question: why Sunday? Just because you feel you can? Why not simply do the most simplest of things and make it universally Saturday? What’s in a day? If God wants Saturday, why make it so hard? For heaven’s sake, for crying out loud, just do it! You have nothing to lose.

Mat. 22:21

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(Frankmer7) #223

There are Christians who now feel that it’s not about any day. It’s about Christ.

Frank


#224

Yes! Let’s give the trumpet a certain sound!

What could possibly go wrong?

Samoa, the International Dateline Shift, and the Seventh-day Sabbath

https://atoday.org/samoa-the-international-dateline-shift-and-the-seventh-day-sabbath/

Response to “Samoa’s Sabbath Wars” (Adventist Today Magazine Fall 2017)

https://atoday.org/response-to-samoas-sabbath-wars-fall-2017/

PART OF THE LIBERAL PLAN FOR OUR DENOMINATION

Sunday-keeping Adventist Churches

ARE YOU READY TO GO ALONG WITH IT?

http://www.sdadefend.com/WolvesinFleeces/Sunday-Adventist.htm


(Cfowler) #225

True…and have thought that for thousands of years! :wink:


(Sirje) #226

Have you been asleep for the last several days? That’s what tis whole discussion has been about.

That’s the problem- does He?
When anything takes the place of Christ you have plenty to lose.


(Cfowler) #227

Whew…I was wondering the same thing. :grin:


(George Davidovich) #228

Carol,
I don’t want to speculate on that, I just prefer to focus on the several ways you can confirm from Scriptures that the Sabbath was not calculated using a lunar cycle, meaning Sabbaths fell on the 8th, 15th, 22nd 29th, day as I pointed out earlier (Exodus 16). There are other Bible proofs as well, even in the NT.


(George Davidovich) #229

[quote=“Sirje, post:210, topic:17321”]
The “nation” of Israel was born after the exodus from Egypt. Before that (Cain and Abel) there was no written law (tables of stone) or anywhere else.
/quote]

In the beginning there were no Jews nor Gentiles, they were all just sons of God until they decided to sin, and even after that, those who obey Gos’ law are still called sons of God. Your quoting of Romans 2 here, which was used as a comparison of self-righteous people who tought they were bettter than those that did not have the truth, for the purpose of “proving” that there was no law from the beginning is completely out of context and a gross misrepresentation of Scripture


#230

You said that that it is not about any day, that it is about Christ. But Christ said that He was Lord also of the sabbath (Mark 2:28).

So, let’s consider the situation:

  • God said, from creation, that He had a holy day, a day sanctified and blessed by Him, a day of rest, that we called the sabbath day, even before sin and before the appearing of any Jew.
  • God himself rested during that day (see Genesis 2)
  • God asked Israel to observe the sabbath (see Exodus 16) even before the Ten Commandments were given to them (Exodus 20), that is, even before the covenant was established with Israel. It means that the giving of the Ten Commandments didn’t make the sabbath holy, it already existed before and was already holy even before the giving of the law.
  • For thousands of years, God asked the Jews, His people, to remember and keep that day
  • The biggest complaint that God has against his people was that they broke his sabbaths
  • Jesus came and kept the sabbath
  • Jesus called himself the Lord of the sabbath
  • Christians keep a day that they consider a day of rest.

Now, I have the following questions:

Why, since most Christians have a day of rest (they even go as far as invoking the 4th commandment to justify their observance), do they keep a day that God has never considered his holy day instead of observing the day that God, since the beginning of creation, has called His day?

Why not observe the day Jesus said He was the Lord of (I don’t know for you but if I consider Jesus to be my Lord, it makes sense to me to keep my Lord’s day)?

Even more interesting, why resisting and make all these efforts in order NOT to keep the seventh-day sabbath?

In the Old Testament, it was about God and when you were His, you had to keep his sabbath, the holy day of the Lord.

Now, if you say that it is about Christ, we have to keep the day He said He was the Lord of, that is, the sabbath.

This make sense.


#231

Sirje,

Do you know what was the main issue for God concerning Israel? It was the fact that Israel kept breaking his sabbath again, and again, and again.

Do you think that God was too obsessed with the sabbath?


#232

I don’t recall Him ever saying that, Nymous.

Have to keep? Really? Jesus said you have to?.

Ooohhh…but what is the Sabbath, Seventh-day Adventist friends?

Surely you’ve figured this out by now?


(Steve Mga) #233

Lekha Dodi –
Yes, it is a welcoming of The Bride, to the Sabbath.
[Not just girl-friend]


#234

But…who is the Bride, Steve? :slight_smile:

Is the Sabbath, herself, the Bride?

If so, what then does the Sabbath represent?

And why do Jewish men make love to their wives on Friday nights?

(There are some spicy writings on “double mitzvahs!” :blush: )


(Cfowler) #235

The reason that Sabbath was so important, was because this was the sign of His and Israel’s Covenant. Breaking the symbol (Sabbath) of this relationship between God and Israel, was like Israel turning away from God and their Covenant. The Sabbath set Israel apart from all the other nations. It was special and important to, and for, Israel.


#236

Cassie,

The Ten Commandments say so.

And Jesus said:

“Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Mat 19:17)

I have a question for you: is there another day that Jesus said He was Lord of beside the sabbath day?


#237

Carol,

As I said before, Israel was asked to keep the sabbath even before the covenant was established at Mt. Sinai. The sabbath was already the holy day of the Lord even before the giving of the law.

So, in the covenant God asked Israel to “remember” the seventh day because the day of the Lord had already been created, was already holy to the Lord, and that He wanted His people to honor His special day as a sign that they belonged to Him.

Now, according to God in the Old Testament, the new covenant was about His people having the law written in the heart, not just on tables of stone. And in the Old Testament, God was speaking about all the commandments of the Ten Commandments, not just nine.

In the Old Testament, the sabbath is presented as the God’s holy day.

In the New Testament, Jesus said that He was Lord of the sabbath. Are we to be ashamed of Jesus’ day?


(Cfowler) #238

This doesn’t change the fact that the Sabbath was the sign of the Covenant God made with Israel. This is stated many times in the Old Testament. This not disputable.

Yes, Jesus is Lord even of the Sabbath. The Pharisees were trying to show that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. He let them know that He was superior and above the Sabbath.

Why would you ask that?


#239

I hope Adventists learn to ask more interesting questions…soon!

This pedestrian right day/wrong day obsession guts the Sabbath of all meaning!

The Commandments are deeper than we think.

Ellen White said, the Laws of Nature are the laws of God.

Try to integrate the two in your mind.

If the Ten Commandments are a transcript of the character of God, what are the Laws of Nature?

Are they separate from the character of God?

Is God’s character compartmentalized into moral rules on the one hand, and laws of physics and chemistry on the other?

Is Christ divided?

Sh’ma Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Ecḥad
Hear, O Israel: the LORD is our God, the LORD is One.

Fulfilling the Law Through Love

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We’ve tried to compartmentalize God!

That’s why our soteriology and eschatology clash!

Adventist eschatology is not healthy!

The mystery of Love and the mystery of the Sabbath are entwined in eternal embrace.


(Cfowler) #240

Where was Israel asked to keep the sabbath even before the law was given at Mt Sinai? I’ve never seen this. Do you have a text for this?


(Cfowler) #241

I understand. I know where this practice came from. They are continuing the practice that was given by God:

"And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,"
Gen 1:14