How Healthy is Adventist Hermeneutics? The Hypertrophy of the Interpreting Church (5)


Hi Steve,

Irrespective of which position one holds, it appears no one has identified or applied the clay symbols of Dan. 2:41 and 43, the “potter’s clay”, the “miry clay” or the “iron mixed with miry clay.” As it is the miry clay that unites with the iron, it is logical the kingdom power or powers represented by the symbol of “miry clay”, is not the same kingdom power or powers represented by the potters clay.

The point is not whether iron and clay represents strength and weakness or political and religious kingdoms, (both can apply) the point is what does the potter’s clay and the miry clay represent ? i.e. what types of kingdoms are represented by the symbol of iron mixed with miry clay, who unite and annul their marriages?

(Mikecmanea) #49

That’s precisely my point. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize problems; the genius is in coming up with solutions. The fact is that you can survey the entirety of Christian theology and what you will find is a limited number of viable solutions, all of which have their problems. It’s easy to magnify the problems of other people’s views when you don’t have to account for your own.

If we magnify the hermeneutical difficulties with Scripture to the point that it can no longer be trusted to provide sufficient data to develop a coherent theology (philosophy/worldview) on, then we are forced to obtain that data elsewhere. In most cases, however, the hermeneutical difficulties are even greater with those other sources (ex. tradition, experience, philosophy, science, church, holy spirit, etc. etc.).

I would say that neither of those options applies to Adventists. They most likely represent Fundamentalists on the one hand and Liberals on the other; a false dichotomy as far as Adventism goes.

(Mikecmanea) #50

I guess the previous comment didn’t post as a reply.

(David) #51

Date Setting, as the term is normally used, refers to setting a date for the return of Christ. That’s not what we are talking about here. We are trying to understand what God has revealed about the world and His Kingdom. Christ referred to Daniel in the Gospels (he who reads let him understand) and I think it behooves any serious student (disciple) of Christ to understand what Daniel wrote.

(Tim ) #52

We might have to agree to disagree, but from my perspective the majority of Adventists are content with our hermeneutics, they are content with our list of proof texts, the Sabbath school quarterlies confirm what they believe and so they don’t feel a need to study more. So I think it is essential to point out the problem in a way that gets people feeling uncomfortable, otherwise nothing will change.

(Harry Elliott) #53


We never hear Adventists disagree with that sentiment–in so many words. However, the practice is overwhelmingly the reverse.

As I recall, she first copied William Miller’s statement that the RCC was “established” in 538 and “abolished” in 1798–neither of which was true, as you say. When it sank in that the RCC church hadn’t disappeared at all, the healing of the beast provided what John Kellogg called a “crawl out hole”. (Never mind that the timing was all wrong.)

Reminds me of the shut door of probation that she affirmed early on. She “solved” the problem by saying that Jesus had shut the door that no one could open, and opened another door that no one could shut…as if that makes any sense.


Reading these comments, how I long for the day when people engaged in conversation to share insights and seek understanding. Polemics has taken over public civility, a reflection of the ordinary Adventist mind. Lets take away the labelling and retort-mongering like petty children. Its time to grow up and be adults.

(Steve Mga) #55

Jordan R –
Spectrum Magazine is NOT school or academic lecturing ONLY.
One might call it “After School Day Discussions” among class mates
over a hamburger and milkshake.
There IS a lot of learning that is shared. Shared thinking in the Malt
There ARE a huge number of Academics who post on Spectrum and DO
give their Academic, long years of Research and Thinking in posts.
As Proverbs says, “Iron sharpens Iron”, both creating “sharp minds.”

Feel free to join us all in the Malt Shop and feel free to offer any comments
[whether you believe they are positive or negative]. All are welcome as long
as ALL take issue with the ideas expressed and NOT the persons who express

(David) #61

Harry, the two witnesses are the key. It’s the little horn of Daniel 7 that kills them. The idea is too revolutionary for me to post it on spectrum.

(Steve Mga) #62

“EMPIRE” whether Secular Empire or Religious Empire is always against
the Tenants of God’s Kingdom.
This has been true ever since the Tower of Babel.
God takes away the curtain on Both Empires in Daniel and Revelation.
The two horned land beast of Rev 13, over time, develops “Empire Mentality”.

(David) #63

Good observation Steve!

(reliquum) #64

A church that develops empire characteristics,
I read that as “institutionalism”