How Historically Embodied is a Prophet? On Steve Daily's Book, "Ellen G. White. A Psychobiography."

One merit of Steve Daily's book is that it highlights the inevitable link between prophetic ministry and psychological profile. Every ministry is embodied in a biography, in a particular psychological form. It could not be otherwise if we start from the conviction of the irreversible historicity of every faith experience. On the other hand, not only the prophet but divine revelation itself is always an embodied and historical event. And the first register of this incarnation is the psychological profile of the prophet.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/11314
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So what are the “best” conclusions those of us who suffered irreparable harm and unrecompensible loss at the behest of EGW can come to?

Or, what is the “right” way to express the resentment and bitterness engendered by trying to live up to EGW’s irrational and admittedly unattainable standards throughout one’s most formative, childhood years?

Should we just say “Well EGW had ‘good intentions’, and leave it at that, knowing that the same can be said of history’s must despicable humans?

After all, Hitler’s intention was to make the world a better place by ridding it of The “Juden”, right?

And okay, the fact that my parents moved to a house one lot over from the local little league field when I was nine, meaning that I had to drive by wistfully on my way to church every Saturday, knowing that I would never be allowed to use my god-given athletic ability to actually participate in the games because LL Registrations were always held on “Sabbath”, doesn’t rise to the level of being incarcerated in Dachau.

But to criticize Mr. Daily, me or anyone else who was deprived of simple childhood experiences and joys on no grounds other than because “Mrs. White said so.” is to heap burning coals on a person who just came out of hell and who only wants a glass of water, or is looking for at least a little human decency and consolation from his fellow man.

In other words, and not that any Adventist has, or is likely to ask, but what would make me feel better about my treatment at the hands of EGW and SAD-ism? Well, for starters, I’d like them to give back the youth which they commandeered, starting back in 1954!!!:rofl:.

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EGW is to Adventists as the Virgin Mary is to Catholics.
Both are on an unattainable pedestal, while all other women in the
church ( both Adventist and Catholic ) are second class citizens…

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What was, and in many cases still, done with her writings has also been done, and still is, with the Bible. Which of the Bible characters/authors/etc would be able to withstand the scrutiny of today? People have for ever followed the person and their interpretations, instead of letting the Spirit guide them. All of these books and reviews show, at least to me, the folly of not doing our own deep study and thinking for ourselves. Of course there will always be those who will and do find support for what ever theology they choose from the Bible or any other book. But isn’t that ‘free will’? After all who/whom are humans accountable too?

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My perception is that fewer and fewer Adventists put EGW on a pedestal if they pay attention to her at all!

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That’s fine.

But if EGW is irrelevant why not make it official and remove Item 18 from the list of prerequisites for baptism?

The point being that even if everyone in the pews would rather forget about the most influential force in the establishment of the cult, there are those—and most particularly the people now running the organization—who disagree vehemently, and would never consider this option.

Again, I’m not an SDA, but It’s my understanding that one of the primary reasons for this refusal is that the denomination still uses EGW as a tool in bringing in new recruits in the third world, and places her as a centerpiece of their authority.

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It’s interesting that Dr. Gutierrez includes Prophets and Kings as one of the books written between 1881 and 1915. Surely he must be aware that Prophets and Kings was not fully written or published until 1917. If truth be told, her personal secretary and literary assistant, Elder Clarence C. Crisler (with the help of at least one other person) had a major hand in researching material for and organizing what materials EGW had started to put together for this book, which was not finished prior to her death. Without Elder Crisler’s work getting the material together and organized into book form, Prophets and Kings would never have gotten published. I’m not implying that the contents are not useful, just clarifying that the book was not printed until two years after EGW’s death.

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She had not been truthful about her sources. She denied deriving her sources from others.

She fitly belonged to these classes.

[quote=“spectrumbot, post:1, topic:21823”]
remember that every prophetic ministry is…only a part and not all of revelation
She claimed all her messages were from God which is not true.

Prophets in the Bible had been perfect at every stage of their ministry unlike Ellen White’s ministry. I don’t think this can be said of Ellen White. The progressive nature of her writings can be attributed to the gradual availability of the sources. Her description of John the Baptist cannot be attributed to gradual writing skills or divine revelation, but to her copying skills. She copied the description of John the Baptist from the book ‘Sunsets on the Hebrew mountains’ by J. R. Macduff, 1861, Chapter XIII. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hn22nu&view=1up&seq=246&q1=abarim

Prophets and Kings was not written by her but was compiled by her assistants after her death in 1917!

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Christopher

Yes, although our denomination has an anti catholic stance, we ape/ mimic the Catholics in many ways.

Firstly, both our denominations are intensely misogynist, ——except for the adulation of the Virgin Mary and EGW, all other women are second class citizens —- even Mother Teresa is superseded but the ,lowest male monk / priest. And zero Adventist clergywomen can break the glass ceiling and assume advanced administrative roles.

And even though I am informed by a prior Catholic seminarian, that a large percentage of Catholic priests are gay, both the Catholics and the Adventists exhibit extreme homophobia.

We also both exhibit profound dogmatism…

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My review of Daily’s book is finally out:

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Ellen White’s description of John the Baptist (Baptist’s work) improved by employing John Ross Macduff’s words and thoughts. Here are the exact parallels form the book I have already referred to which I have in my personal collection. Judge for yourselves how honest our prophet was:

Homeless wanderer (Jesus)

Ellen White (1827-1915): “He was to live, a humble, homeless wanderer, and to die the death of a malefactor” (Red, p. 114, 1877).

Ellen White (1827-1915): “Three years he was going from place to place, a homeless wanderer” (T 27, p. 114, 1878).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “…was a homeless wanderer” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 102,1861).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “At one time, we behold Him a homeless wanderer, who, when “every man went unto his own house, Jesus went unto the Mount of Olives”” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 208, 1861).

And all went forth into the wilderness to hear him (Baptist)

Ellen White (1827-1915): “And all went forth into the wilderness to hear him. Unlearned fishermen and peasants came from the surrounding countries and from regions nigh and afar off. The Roman soldiers from the barracks of Herod came to hear. Chieftains came with their swords girded by their sides, to put down anything that savored of riot or rebellion” (Lt 19a, 1897.5).

Ellen White (1827-1915): “Unlettered peasants and fishermen from the surrounding country; the Roman soldiers from the barracks of hero; chieftains with their swords at their sides, ready to put down anything that might savor of rebellion; the avaricious taxgatherers from their toll booths; and from Sanhedrin the phylacteried priests…even the Pharisee, and the Sadducee, the cold, unimpressible scoffer went away with the sneer silenced and cut to the heart” (8T, p. 332, 1904).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “The desert was alive with crowds hurrying to listen to his message. There were rough boors, unlettered peasants, and fishermen from northern Galilee. There were stern Roman soldiers from the barracks of Herod Antipas; others from Damascus, on their way to measure swords with a lawless chieftain. These stood, with sheathed weapons, to listen to one heroic as their bravest” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 227, 1861).

There were avaricious tax-gatherers

Ellen White (1827-1915): “The avaricious tax-gatherers came from the regions round about; and from the Sanhedrin came forth the phylacteried priests. All listened as if spellbound; and all came away, even the Pharisee, the Sadducee, and the cold, unimpressionable scoffer of the age, with the sneer gone, and cut to the heart with a sense of their sin” (Lt 19a, 1897.5).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “There were grasping, avaricious publicans and tax-gatherers, from Jericho and Tiberias, who came either wearied of their nefarious life, or incited by the novelty of the occasion, to listen to the scourger of their vices. And, stranger than all; Jerusalem, from its Sanhedrim, pores forth its phylacteried representative; – the Pharisee, (the high churchman of his day,) the stickler for forms and ritual observances…the Sadducee, the cold, scoffing infidel of the age…forth they go, many of them, perhaps, with a sneer on their lips” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, pp. 227, 228, 1861).

There were no long arguments

Ellen White (1827-1915): “There were no long arguments, no finely cut theories, elaborately delivered in their “firstly,” “secondly,” and “thirdly.” But pure, native eloquence was revealed in the short sentences, every word carrying with it the certainty and truth of the weighty warnings given” (Lt 19a, 1897.5).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “There must have been a grand, rough eloquence in the preaching of this child of nature. No laboured sentences, no artificial oratory, no metaphysical distinctions. They were short, abrupt, emphatic, stirring aphorisms” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 228, 1861).

John’s message was like that of Jonah to Nineveh

Ellen White (1827-1915): “The warning message of John was in the same lines as the warning to Nineveh, “In forty days, Nineveh shall be destroyed.” [Jonah 3:4.] Nineveh repented, and called upon God, and God accepted their acknowledgement of Him” (Lt 19a, 1897.6).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “…like the call of the prophet of Nineveh, when he rushed through that heathen capital, with his one solemn announcement of its impending doom. Such were John’s exhortations. “Repent!” – Soldiers, Repent! – Publicans, Repent! – Pharisees, and Sadducees, generation of wipers, Repent!” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 228, 1861).

God will of these stones raise up children unto Abraham

Ellen White (1827-1915): “And, pointing to the rocks in wild confusion around through which the stream was winding its course, he said, “God will of these stones raise up children unto Abraham”” (Lt 19a, 1897.7).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “His very similes are borrowed from the scenes from among which he stood. The mass of rock that had tumbled from the heights of the grove were strewed, in wild confusion, on the banks of Jordan…if He sees meet, from these channel stones, these rugged rocks, to raise up children unto Abraham” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, pp. 228, 229, 1861).

Need of people who do not fear to reprove popular sins

Ellen White (1827-1915): “…and other sins, are not to be palliated or excused; for they will speedily demoralize the church. Sin may be called by false names, and glossed over by plausible excuses and pretended good motives, but this does not lessen its guilt in the sight of God” (ST, January 20, 1881.16).

Ellen White (1827-1915): “Sins have become fashionable; but they are nonetheless aggravating in the sight of God. They are glossed over, palliated and excused; the right hand of fellowship is given to the very men who are bringing in false theories and false sentiments. confusing the minds of the people of God, deadening their sensibilities as to what constitutes right principles. Conscience has thus become insensible to the counsels and the reproofs which have been given” (Lt 19a, 1897.21).

Ellen White (1827-1915): “God works through those who hear and obey his voice, those who will, if need be, speak unpalatable truths, those who do not fear to reprove popular sins” (GC, p. 455, 1888).

Ellen White (1827-1915): “There are special duties to be done, special reproofs to be given in this period of the earth’s history… Sins have become fashionable; but they are none the less aggravating in the sight of God. They are glossed over, palliated, and excused… bringing in false theories and false sentiments, confusing the mind of the people of God, deadening their sensibilities as to what constitutes right principles. Conscience has thus become insensible to the counsels and the reproofs which have been given” (1NL, 103, 1945).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “Evangelical preaching, in these our days, is not only tolerated, but sought, so long as it adheres to doctrinal statement, and keeps clear of the call to special duties, or the rebuke of special sins. But we oftentimes need men in the spirit and power of the Baptist, who have the moral courage to stand up in the pulpit as the reprovers and denouncers of sins which have become fashionable, – glossed over – palliated – excused, – ay, to the reality of which, through the deadening influence of habit, conscience may have become insensible” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 233, 1861).

He spoke personally and pointedly

Ellen White (1827-1915): “He spoke personally and pointedly. He reproved the Pharisees of the Sanhedrin because their religion consisted in forms and not in righteousness of pure, willing obedience. Their forms alone were of no value to God. He addressed the soldiers who were made to serve the Roman power, and which often provoked in them insubordination and a spirit of defiance. He spoke to Herod in regard to his marriage with Herodias, saying, It is not lawful for thee to have her. [Matthew 14:4.] He spoke to him of a future retribution, a future judgment when God would judge every man according to his works” (Lt 19a, 1897.8).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “The Baptist’s was no mere indefinite homily “the evil of sin” in general. He spoke pointedly and personally, to every class and every individual, of their dominant passion or lust, whatever it was. He spoke to the Pharisee of the day, of his resting in forms. He spoke to the soldier of the day of his spirit of his insubordination…He spoke to the court of the day of their dissoluteness, and to the head of that court of his special sin, – “It is not lawful for thee to have her.” Nor was there any ambiguity or indefiniteness employed in a state of coming retribution” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, pp. 233, 234, 1861).

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do?

Ellen White (1827-1915): ““And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do? He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. Then came also publicans to be baptized, and saith unto him, Master, what shall we do?” Did he say, Leave your toll and custom houses? No, he said to them, “Exact no more than that which is appointed you… “And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages”” (Lt 19a, 1897.9, 10).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “To the common people he said – “Go back to the world and your work, and manifest the spirit of brotherly kindness – ‘He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.’” To the publicans, he did not say – “Leave your irreligious toll and custom-houses – give up your gains at Tiberias and Jericho.” No! but “Return home! Be tax-gatherers still; but hold the balance of truth in your hand… ‘Exact no more than that which is appointed you.’ …To the soldiers, he did not say – “Leave your horrible trade of war; – throw down your commissions; – cast sword and scabbard into the depths of Jordan, and live lives of hermit seclusion on its banks.” …Be brave and good men. ‘Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely, and be content with your wages’” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, pp. 235, 236, 1861).

Beautiful plain of Esdraelon

Ellen White (1827-1915): “More than twenty miles from Capernaum, on a tableland overlooking the wide, beautiful plain of Esdraelon, lay the village of Nain, and thither Jesus next bent His steps. Many of His disciples and others were with Him” (DA, p. 381).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “One of the declivities of Mount Tabor, in the great plain of Esdraelon…the traveller still discovers the ruins of the city of Nain…Jesus and His disciples, along with “much people,” took this journey of twelve miles from the city of Capernaum” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 267, 1861).

The knell of Satan’s empire sounded

Ellen White (1827-1915): “He knew that when He should exclaim, “It is finished,” all heaven would triumph… He knew that the knell of Satan’s empire would then be sounded…” (DA, p. 679).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “He sounds over His prostrated adversary the death-knell of His power! At the sound, the pillars of hell rock and tremble to their foundations. He cried, “IT IS FINISHED; and he bowed his head, and gave up his ghost”” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 294, 1861).

Let the ministers point the people the Lamb of God

Ellen White (1827-1915): “Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world.” …This is the work of every minister of the gospel” (Lt 181, 1905.4).

John Ross MacDuff (1818-1895): “Let the faithful servants of a greater than John have one ambition, one cause of joy, – that Christ their Lord be exalted. Let them take as their motto and watchword the ever memorable words with which the Baptist pointed his disciple to the great being approaching them – “Behold the lamb of God!”” (Sunsets on the Hebrew Mountains, p. 244, 1861).

From other authors:

John resembled Elijah

Ellen White (1827-1915): “John’s singular appearance carried the minds of his hearers back to the ancient seers. In his manner and dress he resembled the prophet Elijah…His words were plain, pointed, and convincing. Many believed him to be one of the prophets risen from the dead” (DA, p. 104).

George Jones (1800-1870): “…a man of singular appearance…in his dress and manner, and in his authoritative language, reminding all who saw and heard him of the old prophets; and, indeed in his appearance so resembling Elijah, that the query was immediately started in every man’s mind, whether he was not actually that prophet risen from the dead?” (Life-scenes from the four Gospels, p. 17, 1865).

John Fleetwood : “…resembling the ancient prophet Elijah, in the coarseness of his clothing, and plainness of his dress” (The life of our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, p. 21, 1823).

Alfred Edersheim (1825-1889): “Neither his dress nor his food was that of the Essenes; and the former, at least, like that of Elijah” (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, vol. 1, p. 264, 1883).

Henry Hart Milman (1791-1868): “His dress recalled that of his master Elijah: a tunic of camel’s hair and a leathern girdle about his lions” (The History of Christianity, from the birth of Christ to the abolition of paganism in the Roman Empire, vol. 1, p. 134, 1840).

The trumpet call of John the baptist

Ellen white (1827-1915): “John the Baptist gave the message that like a trumpet call had sounded through the land, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (DA, p. 506).

William Hanna (1808-1882): “… when a voice, loud and thrilling like voice of a trumpet, issues from the desert, saying “Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (The Life of Christ, p. 72, 1863).

Cunningham Geikie (1824-1906): “…his voice came like a trumpet, rousing them to new life” (The Life and words of Jesus Christ, vol. 1, p. 408, 1877).

John Milton (1608-1674): “Now had the great Proclaimer with a voice More awful then the sound of Trumpet, cri’d Repentance, and Heavens Kingdom nigh at hand” (Paradise regained, p. 2. 1671).

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It seems to me that the editing of this discussion is dishonest in allowing the negatives by any who wish to disclaim Ellen White–every stripe and type above, but the numerous comments I made in her defense last week have been edited so that I don’t see them. How is this honest and how is it a “spectrum” of ideas?
I am quite sure that the party above that says she did not write Prophets & Kings is misinformed My understanding was that it was mostly done but someone else put it in final form after she died, broken hip, etc. To support what I’m saying, please consider this.
#1. She titled her book “The Captivity & Restoration of Israel” based on Jeremiah 30:3 where God says, “I will bring again the captivity of my people, Israel and Judah, and cause them to return to the land that I gave their fathers, and they shall possess it.” (TITLE) but leaders who didn’t read what she wrote (see #2) changed her title to Prophets & Kings.
#2. She further explained, "That which God purposed to do for the world through Israel, the chosen nation, He will finally accomplish through His church on earth [at the end of time,] “even His covenant-keeping people…and to them will be fulfilled all the covenant promises made by Jehovah to that ancient people.” PK 713,714. This supports Ezek 36:24-28 READ!
#3. God executed judgment (Exod 12:12) on Egypt and took Israel to a covenant that made them His kingdom (Exod 19:5,6) and Bride, Jer 3:14. Pioneers gave the messages of a time of judgment and “the Bridegroom comes” in 1844, but they didn’t fit then and Christ said, “You must prophesy again” (when they will fit in our time), Rev 10:11.
#4. The above messages must be given when they will fit. Specifically, when Muslims take Jerusalem (Zech 14:1,2) we must give the 1st angel’s message–Judgment is impending because “Jerusalem is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to walk in the light God has given” 8T 67, and she later said we weren’t walking in the light, 8T 247.
#5. The Muslims may be expected to surround Jerusalem at Passover as Titus did in 70 AD and they will be rejoicing in their victory with the Dome of the Rock’s inscription, “Allah has no Son” when suddenly, “The Lord shall roar from Jerusalem; the heavens and earth shall shake” Joel 3:16. That earthquake also has "day of the Lord context as Zech 14:1 does and Ellen White’s vision of an earthquake at Loma Linda in 9T 92-95 so the earthquake initiates the end-time period and “the remnant” get their city burned in Matt 22:6,7 for scorning the wedding invitation that could be explained, but articles sent to Spectrum haven’t seen the light of day
#6 The earthquake is the “sudden, unlooked for calamity” that wakes the 10 virgins in COL 412, Ellen White also cites Zeph 1:8 that God would punish the King’s children. “Wait and see” is a foolish virgin response because we should be studying to understand how Christ will “knock” in Luke’s wedding parable (Hint–the only other place that Christ “knocks” is Rev 3:20, for a materialistic lukewarm church that ended in an earthquake. For a better understanding, please visit http://TheBridegroomComes.wordpress.com

Thanks for taking time to reply to Daily’s book. Daily’s book is rather one-sided giving no opportunity for a counter position. Books of this order show a serious bias and are likely to distort the subject.

However, in most cases, I believed, you did not disprove the charges Daily made against EGW. You did not present evidence to the contrary that would dismantle Daily’s criticism of EGW, full stop. You denied them saying, “Daily’s weak case against Ellen White will likely result in stronger defense of her.” If Daily has a “weak case,” one should be able to show that the facts and qoutes in the book are unreliable or false. Your Book Review, seemed to me, to review Daily’s claims, but did not refute them with counter evidence other then Daily misused and was unfair with some of his evidence. Also you showed that not all authorities on EGW would draw Daily’s conclusions.

Loma Linda Sabbath School Class give an honest review of Steve Daily’s book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyFv3PSOD-o

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I have arrived at the same conclusion about the review.

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While one can dispute the conclusions of pathology or conscious fraud pertaining to EGW, what can’t and has yet to be refuted is the documentation that Steve Daily provides.

How one interprets it is the question. But, no matter what one wants to do with it, what can’t be denied is the problematic nature of it all. If one thinks that Steve has gone on the attack, that still doesn’t compare to the obfuscation and obscurantism that the denomination has engaged in regarding this all… for over a century.

Thanks…

Frank

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Why and How Judgment Comes to US, LA and Loma Linda in 2023–How to Be Spared

FEBRUARY 12, 2021

This is the headline of your referenced Web Address. I wonder, does anyone need more Date Setting?

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Sorry, this stuff is just Bonzo!

Frank

That’s true of all of her writings. Fanny Bolton, for instance, had been a correspondent for several non-SDA magazines and wanted to do the same for Adventist publications. The Whites doomed Bolton’s career. After Bolton escaped and became part of the writing staff of another denominational publication, James wrote to that editor and recommended that no credits be given to women, especially Fanny, because they might think they were more important than the paper. Simple jealousy. Maybe not so simple. She wrote to her son, that she had laid down her pen and would not take it up again until God gave her as good as Ann Davis.

Fred Veltman observed that a pro could recognize the change of sources from chapter to chapter in The Desire of Ages.

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Frank and Anyone? “Surely the Lord God will do nothing [without] revealing His secret to His servants, the prophets.” Amos 3:7,8 is about the earthquake because when “the lion roars” the heavens and earth will shake–it’s the Lion of Judah roaring in Joel 3:16 (day of the Lord context in verse 14) which is when Muslims take Jerusalem (Zech 14:1,2) and “the day of the Lord” comes in the context of 4 generations (40 years/generation, Heb 3:9,10) so 4 x 40 from SDA founding in 1863 comes to 2023, as do several other parameter and how do you “prophesy again” (Rev 10:11) if you don’t know when?? Pioneers thought 1844 was “the time of the end” (Dan 8:17) but they failed to see the word for “vision” was the chazon of ram and goat–the ram’s horns, Medes & Persians are now Iraq & Iran–the vision is for us–“prophesy again”?
Before you decide that you don’t need the information in the above link, you owe it to yourself to consider it–if you don’t, it’s “a shame and folly,” Prov 18:13. 2023 has half a dozen signs pointing to it.

  1. The sun shall be darkened & moon turned to blood before the day of the Lord, Joel 2:31. A rare solar eclipse on the equinox followed by
  2. A blood moon on Passover marked the beginning of the biblical year in 2015.
  3. The Iran Nuclear Treaty was “Peace & safety” that brings sudden destruction, 1Thess 5.
  4. “When you see the abomination standing where it ought not” (Mk 13:14) was the new definition of marriage standing where it ought not, in Supreme Court and also we saw
  5. The pope standing in Congress where he ought not (believes in union of church/state)
    All of these are an 8-year warning link Joseph gave, saying 7 good years–8 is famine.

If nothing huge happens in 2023, God may be accused of giving us meaningless signs.
He has appointed times (mo’ed)–we don’t set times, but should recognize them–this was information that leaders rejected in 1888. They put the statutes of the law as ceremonial, nailed to the cross, but Elijah is supposed to “restore all things” Matt 17:11 and he clearly comes in the context of Moses law with statutes, Mal 4:4,5. Laodicea is blind; but we might see and be ready if we choose! “As the days of Noah” most want to “wait and see” which requires no faith, and that won’t work for us, Rom 14:23. Let me encourage you to get a quick easy read with 5-star reviews for less than you’d pay for a meal at https://amzn.to/2RrhFoH

How long will persons ignore the very words of Christ, ‘no one knows, not even myself’! Date setting was and never will be a way of spending our time while on this earth. I call such theology, anti Christ. His life was about others, first last and always. If a person views the Bible as being God inspired, then why go down that road? Get on with life and tell others about ‘believe and be saved’! Back to topic!!!

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