The signs were/are not for us to compute dates for His coming but to know that the time is near. God did not specify the day or the year of his coming. Date setting is Satan’s delusion. When in 1844, the expected event did not come about, Miller acknowledged that no prophetic event occurred on that day, let alone Christ’s coming. Did they blame God for the disappointment? Instead, Ellen White blamed the Millerites for their unfaithfulness!
ABEN & Anyone! Instead of banging Ellen White more (“Which of the prophets did you not persecute?” (Acts 7:52) let’s stick with Bible that is being missed. “Teach us to number our days that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom” Ps 90:12, and “Of the times and seasons [Paul said] you know them” 1Thess 5:1 (that phrase, “times and seasons” the disciples were not to know because they had failed to watch and pray–they ran when they should have stayed with Christ and testified at the trial by saying "Come Sunday morning–you’ll see!
If they had done so, there would have been witnesses and the Jews couldn’t have lied and Pentecost could have seen the whole nation in repentance with the kingdom He proclaimed set up as it was at the 1st Pentecost at Sinai, Exod 19:5,6.
But Paul, putting himself in the end-time when “we which are alive and remain shall be caught up” added two verses later, that we know the times and seasons that the disciples didn’t.
I believe I do. If you are a Berean, you should look for Biblical support so you will know when to watch & pray as explained in the book linked above. The annual Sabbaths “ARE shadows of things to come” (not were, and fulfilled at the cross and forgotten. Ellen White also had this understanding as COL 34; GC 399.4 and PK 678 support, along with her showing how we keep Passover by doing the Lord’s Supper, DA 652.2 Then if we “watch and pray” we should be ready, further info in the link above.
Incredible how you continue to twist scriptures and read them out of context to support your views, Richard.
1 Thess. 5:1 is followed by 5:2, which you conveniently leave out: “for you know very well that the day of the lord will come like a thief in the night.” Paul is not writing to them about times and dates, as he said in verse 1, because the day will be unexpected. It is not to be calculated, and nowhere does he revert to such nonsense in the passage.
He contrasts those who are in darkness, who will be negatively stunned by the parousia, with the Thessalonian believers themselves, who he calls sons of light. His exhortation to them is not based on calculating dates, or special knowledge of timing, it is based on to whom they belong, namely Christ, and the realm to which they belong, that of light. His word of preparation is to continually put on/live their lives in faith, hope, and love…and to encourage each other and build up one another in doing so.
These directions from Paul are entirely relational, between believers and God, and in community with one another. They are about a way of life, regardless of the timing of Jesus’s appearing. They have nothing to do with special knowledge of calculated times and dates, as you continue to peddle, and that can actually deceive those who don’t know any better.
Richard, wake up! Please!
Anyone interested in this topic! Frank, you are the one who doesn’t understand the context of 1Thess 5:1-3. Each of thje phrase fit Egypt when God came as a thief (invisibly and took their slaves) and Pharaoh was saying Peace & safety as he urged his chariots into the sea, but sudden destruction came. "The day of the Lord is the extension of “night of the Lord” in Exod 12;42 and it it NOT the 2nd coming as many suppose, because Joel has more references to day of the Lord than any other book, but NO 2nd coming. But Paul’s saying that it’s like Egypt should help us appreciate an impending judgment with Passover timing because as Egypt threw babies in the river, the US has thrown 60 million in the trash.
There is a 9-11 modification if you might like to look it up in Numbers 9:10,11 If Israelites took a long trip and couldn’t get back for Passover, they were not excused, they were to keep it a month later, and Christ said the law would be in effect till heaven & earth passed. He was taking a long trip to heaven and His return must conform to His law, as He clued us when 5 women missed the wedding, He said the disciples didnt’ understand because "it’s like a man traveling to a far country–2nd Passover, also supported by statutes that Elijah comes to restore in Mal 4:4,5. I’m sure you can see this if you try. Those feast days “are (not were) shadows of things to come” Col 2:17, but it’s messed up because translators added an italicized is that changed the meaning.
If you find this “far out” from what you’ve been taught, consider the aggelos (messenger or preacher) to Laodicea is “blind and naked” in Rev 3:17. We need a different view!
Christ said to be watching (gregoreo means to be awake, and it would be unfair to say so untess there were clues for when, and Passover was the only night it was required as Exod 12:10 and Matt 26:38-41 shows. I have context–you are telling me to wake up but your advise allows everyone to go back to sleep as the 10 virgins were (they weren’t watching)
You simply cobble together texts and meaning from all over, and then attribute such to Paul. You make artificial distinctions between phrases such as day of the lord and second coming, throw it all together, and…voila!
I’m not claiming to know the mind of Paul, but at least I’m trying to work from the passage in its immediate context, as a letter to 1st century believers in Thessaloniki, and what Paul was trying to say in the flow of his thought to them. Then we can apply what it means for us.
Additionally, if you consider the exhortation and encouragement to live the way of faith, hope, and love, which is what Paul was emphasizing himself in the passage, as encouraging people to go to sleep, then you’re further out afield than you’ve already even indicated.
I won’t continue, Richard. Enjoy yourself!
There are parodoxes, contradictions and thoelogical errors over 70 years of writings, but I see a gradual change, especially after 1888. Since she had little formal education-3rd grade, she grew in understanding of scripture, which included her reading many commentators. This enlarged her view and discriptions of all biblical characters. Regretibly she had trouble giving credit but this enlarged and changed her views of the nature of man, the nature of sin, and the nature of Christ. But I give her credit for insisting while alive, that belief in her gift not be a test of fellowship. But contrary to this, 36 years after she died the leaders made accepting her prophetic gift a fundamental belief. Thus controversy
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Frank, As you wish–you don’t need to continue, but Paul was even clearer when he said, “I would not have you ignorant how our fathers all passed through the sea…All those things happened to them for examples and they are written for our admonition…ends of the world.” 1Cor 10:1,11. So you shouldn’t be afraid to see events of the Exodus as the context for “day of the Lord” which is the end-time period–not the 2nd coming. The “sudden destruction” is from the earthquake when God “will shake terribly the earth” Isaiah 2:21 context is day of the Lord in verse 12. “Prophesy again” is what Christ said to do in Rev 10:11 and you can do that when Muslims take Jerusalem in “day of the Lord” Zech 14:1,2 because “the Lord shall roar…the heavens and earth will shake” (Joel 3:16) and Loma Linda’s hospitals will be on the ground, 9T 92,93. Wait and see is a foolish virgin response that needs no faith (Rom 14:23)
Web Editor: Thank you for letting me know–I was wrong, and would rather be mistaken on that point, appreciating a forum to air a different view than some…
but “the leaders” may simply be implementing what is quite self-evident: people who believe in adventist exceptionalism tend to believe in egw…people who don’t believe in adventist exceptionalism tend to have a problem with egw…in fact it is generally the case that diatribes against adventist distinctive doctrines, like IJ, tend to feature heavy diatribes against egw…
it seems quite unavoidable that people charged with running an organization would want to weed out factors that result in hostility towards that organization…
Einstein is quoted as having said that no number of experiments could prove his theory correct but just one experiment could prove him wrong.
Similarly, one can count as anathema to all that is rational any attempt at defending the honor of any purported prophetess or prophet if even one of that person’s prophecies do not come to pass or will never be realized given that the date for its fulfillment has long since past.
(See EGW’s “worm food” prediction: Food for Worms Vision by Ellen G. White)
Among EGW’s other flawed visions was her claim that Dr. Kellogg would go insane. He died years later, compos mentis, at the age of 93.
If a prophet’s predictions don’t materialize the only possible conclusions are that either the prophet is not a prophet or his “god” is not an omniscient one.
Thus, there is no reason for any person or group of people to place EGW’s work on a pedestal as SAD-ists have done for decades. I’d also suggest that if any of her books should be retitled, it would be her landfill-sized mound of unchristlike judgments which she rained down on her sycophantic followers in an attempt to hold them enthralled with magical visions that seemed to always support whatever point she was trying to make. That set of tomes could more rightly be rebranded "EGW’s Testimonies Against The Members of the Church I Founded”.
Lastly, while we are admonished not to judge, I’m convinced in that some cases–particularly when one has made a habit and even a career of judging others–one’s god-given mind and our divinely-granted sense of reason forces us to “make the call”. Thus, my studied conclusions are that EGW was demonstrably not only a failure as a prophet but, even more importantly, she and the cult she was instrumental in establishing cannot rightly be considered Christian, by even the most general sense of the term due its ongoing fixation with judgmental recriminations.
In fact, if there were any way to enforce the “Truth in Advertising Laws” the institution Mr. and Ms. White started would more honestly be referred to as “The Cult Of Egg White-ism”.
Your conclusions are right! Unfortunately though, the church would never acknowledge this fact and would rather promote a lie by tolerating (see Thayatira) a self-claimed female prophet.
Here again we have an expression of opinion stated as if an absolute fact when, in reality, there are other options to the “weeding out” process, including that of considering the possibility that some centuries-old “present truths” may have little in common with the truth of today.
When EGW was alive it was reasonable to say, “What goes up, must come down.”
In our more enlightened age, we know many objects have gone aloft which have absolutely no chance of re-entering earth’s gravitational field.
Indeed, it seems reasonable to suspect that institutions which do not pursue an “adapt and grow” attitude, or groups that are absolutely averse to any dissent, are as moribund as a plant which thinks it obtained all the sunlight it needs on its first day in the sun.
IOW, while thinking it natural and wise to brush aside those who “have a problem with EGW”, chasing away more discerning persons who might be able to bring a new lightness to the denomination, could actually be SAD-ism’s biggest problem.
Not to be argumentative but it’s my understanding that Elder White wrote the original SDA Statements of Faith and included a belief in his wife’s “gift” as one of those articles.
Again, I could be wrong and I’m certainly not going to make an issue of it here, anymore than I’m concerned enough to do any further research into the question!!!
Anyone & NY_G_Pa,
You have an interesting concept from Einstein that no number of experiments could prove his theory correct but just one experiment could prove him wrong.
Using Einstein, science has made the atomic bomb, traveled to space–his theory seem to be so and just because something doesn’t fit, would not prove him all wrong in my opinion.
This also works in Scripture with the prophets of old who were God’s people, and I don’t think one mistake would prove them not God’s people. Joel (1:15) and Zephaniah (1:7) both said “the day of the Lord is at hand” and Peter said, "This is that which was spoken by Joel, “In the last days…” (Acts 2:17) and Paul said, “We which are alive and remain shall be caught up.” 1Thess 4:17. Ellen White referred to the soon comng of Christ hundreds of times. All of them were wrong, but if a stone doesn’t fit the building, just lay it aside, like the cornerstone in Christ’s time, it may fit later.
The works of a woman with a 3rd grade education who founded a church with schools, publishing houses and hospitals around the world to grow to 22,000,000 while 7th day Baptists in twice the time only have 50,000 suggests that her work is more than human–either blessed by God or blessed by the devil, and having read Desire of Ages, Steps to Christ, Mount of Blessings, Christ’s Object Lessons, Ministry of Healing, Counsels on Diets and Foods, Education, Patriarchs and Prophets, Prophets & Kings, and yes, the Great Controversy–ALL are classics, yes, some of it borrowed, and not quoted, just like John Wesley did, but the laws were different then and Victor Ramik (Catholic copyright attorney who read Great Controversy) said she did not violate the law, etc.
In the end, we are not judged by God for what we do, but for our motive in doing it and we can’t read the motives of others a century ago, and to knit-pick and criticize every possible thing that can be found does not fit well for me when I find her still ahead of medical science in their use of drugs, now a leading cause of illness and death due to Adverse Drug Reactions and Dr. Clive McCay of Cornell (Nutrition) said “there is no better overall guide available” and Prof Florence Stratemeyer of Columbia Univ. Teacher’s College eulogized Ellen White’s book, Education as having advanced educational concepts.
If we are honest, we should admit a great controversy between God and [d]evil, and SDAs have to decide whose side we are on–Ellen White has been behind millions seeing the Bible Sabbath and much more. I think it’s the work of the devil to spend our time picking through the garbage can to find something to feed on when there is important information we aren’t seeing for our time, http://amzn.to/2RrhFoH for example.
As I’ve mentioned before on this forum, the Germans loved Hitler because the trains ran on time.
Again, just sayin…
Oh, and to paraphrase another of my most insightful comments ( ) I would like to add that I’m disappointed but not suprised that you decided to judge me for what I know based on nothing other than what you choose to believe.
But then again, what else should one expect at a SAD-ist website, right?
Obviously all of this is just me being the masochist!
Lastly, and I’ve said this before too, I’m out.
Anyone & NY_G_Pa: “By their fruits you shall know them” but the great thing is that we have choice and can change our destiny by doing so if we repent. I don’t judge you in terms of your final destiny and hope you will find something better than what seems to you so many negatives of the past. We tend to find what we look for in life and there’s a lot of light and truth that we are missing–you misjudged me as I am not a “SADventist” for they are the materialistic lukewarm church that has Christ [Truth] outside seeking entrance, but the time is coming when “to Him that knocketh, it shall be opened…” Matt 7:7 (the knock is the earthquake that ended the ancient lukewarm church circa 63 AD) explained on the website you cited, TheBridegroomComes.wordpress. com
BWTM: I forgot to mention that since I quit adventism I spend about 0% of my time worrying about end time predictions, as opposed to what Ellen White would have me do.
Instead I try to be like a lily of the field “flower child” with my roots in the ground and my head focused, as much as possible, on the ever changing Now.
Also, while I suspect that your intimation was that the atom bomb was a “good thing” I’m pretty sure I could find millions of people of Japanese descent who would not only disagree but would even charge that the decision to drop it on them rather than on Europeans was another example of America’s engendered racism.
In regards to Einstein, he was deliberately overlooked for The Manhattan Project as his theories were merely theoritical. Further, there are those who insist that his notions about relativity were debunked by Tesla in the early 1900’s and that the reason theortical physics has found itself in a funk for the past century is that they’ve spent so much time worshipping their deified image of a “fuzzy-headed crackpot”, as Tesla referred to the womanizing professor.
Anyone & NY_G_Pa: I agree that hearing people’s predictions is a waste of time if not supported by Scripture, but since God says He won’t do anything without revealing it (Amos 3:7) you could be missing something important by looking the other way, because that is answering “No” to it before hearing it (Prov 18:13) and what I am seeing is well supported by Scriptures, having given you a sample, sorry, but I think you need to look closer!
You are sorry.
And I’m not impressed by your thinking…