How Long, Oh Lord? Remembering Charlottesville

The most abysmally egregious discrimination in Adventism is not a racial one, but the shunning and shaming of our LGBT offspring by families, congregations, and schools that has persisted over many decades.

The recent fortieth anniversary Kampmeeting of SDA KINSHIP— the organization of gays and lesbians that formed as a protective bonding in the face of persecution by the church — comprised a group that told horrific stories of forced conversion therapy ( by the infamous church approved Colin Cook ) and other tales of woeful discrimination., denigration and demeaning denouncements.

Trump meanwhile has initiated such a vibrant economy that all minorities - blacks, Hispanics, Asians, women, and teenagers now enjoy the lowest unemployment and the greatest job availability IN HISTORY plus rising salaries / wages.

If this is “racism “ then we need more of it !!

Plus all who have pension plans / IRAs benefit from continuing successive highs in the stock market.

Adventist tithe receipts in NAD must be booming as a result of this wonderful economic growth !

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Trump’s words and declarations, and his bragging, and his statements full of falsehood have, indeed, a potent mesmerizing capability!

I am glad that individuals like Robert Reich have been exposing the fallacy of Trump’s economic bragging. Every post is worth reading. True, solid educational information.


George, if i encountered a pt who only saw what you say you see i would refer him to a doctor.
Policy? Ha-he inherited THAT, as well as the “cages”. The HOR’s have made his work impossible to enact policies needed today, instead fomenting every sort of slur imaginable.
Claiming “your picture” means the President is glorying over making an orphan is the worst kind of disgusting false new/witness, (which i keep hoping, though dwindling, that you of all people know better). Why don’t the HOR’s pass a funding bill to enhance, upgrade. supply needed border facilities? Precisely because the public is full of gullible partisan hacks whose itchy ears love to spread “all they are told they heard/they saw”, and keeping the crisis going is politically expedient to a policy devoid wing.

Prove it, What policy? What picture? Careful now, this could be eye-popening reality testing!

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For those who may not be fully informed:


The baby’s parents were killed in the El passo shooting, directly related to Trump’s ideologies (policies?).
More here:


Thought so, you got nothing but hate, innuendo, slur, sir.

Policy requires congressional approval.

There is no policy enacted anywhere that you can cite in defense of your statement.

Far as the context of the picture, completely illogical to connect that to a “policy” requiring that baby be orphaned, or that the thumb gesture signifies what you too gleefully desire…

George, i pray for more forgiveness in my heart, cause I really have a hard time with that, personally. I will beging to pray for your new eyes, too, so that you might see beyond the glaucoma of hate.

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Withdrawing one’s support of Donald Trump does not empower Hillary Clinton, who is a grandmother living her private life in New York. It is possible to forever hate her and not aid and abet white nationalism.

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I like the way you portray HC. Here’s a recent Politico article about her:

This is a huge part of the election results! I really wish that people would stop accusing people who voted for Trump, or continue to support him in any way, of not being Christian, support all manner of bad behavior, or worse…the list goes on. It’s terrible to say such things. It’s odd that “the commandment keeping people”, are bearing false witness. But, I guess it’s okay, as long as you go to church on Saturday. :thinking:

I implore people to PLEASE stop with the accusations, the character assassinations, judging others’ Christianity! It’s despicable!


Frankly, its unbecoming, unprofessional, unbrotherly, unhuman, untrue, and…unchristian.
That some are so obsessed, unsettling.


In the United States, private citizens are allowed to express their views. If you are afraid that Hillary Clinton is somehow going to become president if support is withdrawn from Donald Trump, I can assure you that she will not. Not everyone has a basic rudimentary understanding of civics, so this conversation may not be as easy as we would like. We don’t teach civics in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. How a Christian should witness in the public sphere remains a difficult question for most Seventh-day Adventists. But what should be clear to even the most ignorant Seventh-day Adventist is that support for a white nationalist, such as Donald Trump, is incompatible with biblical Christianity.


It may be difficult but it should be easy to understand that throwing a blanket statement that is negative in connotation to those we disagree with is certainly is not Christian-like.


i’m not so sure, elmer…christ had a lot of negative things to say to the pharisees, almost always with negative connotations that he knew they couldn’t agree with…sometimes the right thing to do is call a spade a spade, even when you know that many want to think of it as a giant spoon…


So what should people do so that he doesn’t get elected again? And who do you think is a good prospect for president that seems polar opposite and good for the country?

Yes indeed but all were applicable. It’s the blanket statement that is said indiscriminately without regard to truth. Would you appreciate it if you were told that ALL SDA homosexuals, without exemptions, hated EGW and believed in their hearts she was a fake prophet?

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George…R U sitting down?

Randy Roberts presented a sermon today that I consider competent. 8-10-19
He used a passage from Rom 5 that I shared with Mark Finley…after he preached on hope…which I considered a shallow peace & safety message. I also gave Mark 1 JN 3:3

honestly, i wouldn’t get all worked up over it, since i know this view is false…

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Sadly, I agree with Phil. In my own church there are those who agree totally with Trump. These misguided brethren admit the racism as a factor.

But it’s much darker, isn’t it. A creeping fascism underlying the whole world. A repeat of the past. Perhaps this is a fluke…but take in account the world-wide populism, and the dire environmental change, the question is…what if we are living on that precipice…are we prepared for what’s to come?


Phil, your detractors are simply using “what-aboutisms” to argue their points. Typical defense move from POTUS supporters. Just like other tropes such as “fake news” and “alternative facts”. Don’t forget it was our President who has directed We the People not to believe what we hear and see. Only what he says. Stuff of authoritarians.


This is true of they way both sides operate. Nobody jumps into an ideology feet first. Sort of like jumping off a cliff. It is more like creeping into a cold lake. You stick your toe in and it becomes acclimatized. Then you slowly inch your way in until you realize you are waist deep in the water and it is not as cold as you thought. At this time, rather than sit in the water on your own, you encourage others to come in. Some will. Some won’t. We praise those who join us as “brave” individuals. Those that don’t join us are “cowards”. Very rarely will someone go all the way into the lake and say “Actually this lake is cold. I’m getting out”. If you do you are subject to all manner of derision - “can’t make up your mind, you used to be like us, what is wrong with you…”

Each little step we take into an ideology/philosophy/religion, each little assent we make, enables us to take the next step more easily, to the point it is often harder to say no than to say yes.

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i think you are stating things exactly correctly…the unexpected the trump victory in 2016, along with what we now know was extensive russian intervention, may have been just the first indication that we really are accelerating into the end of the world horrors described so vividly in egw…i was encouraged by jared thurmon’s article in the review…it seems the god of egw really is stirring his church, little by little…i’m on the fence on whether i’ll be part of the 144,000 who overcome the beast and the world without seeing death…sometimes i believe i will be, other times it doesn’t seem likely…i’m OK with either scenario…i guess the only the thing we can really be sure of individually is our own personal connection with jesus…i’m so thankful i know how to get this important job done…

in calgary, the lazy days of summer are slowly sliding into the past…we had a wonderful, uplifting church service yesterday…my own feeling is that we’re simply waiting for the church in the u.s. to get it together…maybe it really is starting to happen now…one thing’s for sure: GC Indianapolis 2020 will definitely be interesting, as will be the 2020 u.s. election…

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