Because you have brought the idea up too many times and it is getting annoying?
You are posing that the simple taking of surveys would change things (?) and your other “topic” is the poor quality, etc. of sermons. Why don’t you explain why you think that your “campaign” on these two topics would change much of anything?
I would like to add one more thing, Steve- even if the surveys were well written by a professional and people answered them honestly…what would be the outcome?? The information is only info unless it is used to implement something. The Powers That Be don’t have to use the info or make changes in any way.
I think most of us here on this forum don’t need to have surveys in order to know most of the reasons why Adventist churches are not open…but perhaps you can get an answer or two.
Kim
the 'Issue" is Change. I do not see where a survey would provoke change.
There HAS to be verbal dialogue within the group to set any stage for change. I have never seen this allowed in an SDA church.
There HAS to be a DISCERNMENT PROCESS – process indicates a purposeful task, and taking the time for discovery. Sometimes it can be a slow process of several weeks.
It might be as simple by starting with hanging up a huge blank sheet of paper for people to write messages to each other on, as a starter for the conversation. At another time, the group get together and discuss each others comments. Discernment takes time. It is only by Discernment that desired change can be Identified.
I’ve not seen SDAs do Discernment.
Perhaps a good idea would to do a comparative analysis of small groups v Church.
It would be interesting to see how small groups, which are voluntary by nature, and church, which is more compulsive by nature, differ.
Then, reasons for such differences could be analysed.
Agreed, Steve…can’t manufacture anything from what isn’t inherently there.
It would be interesting to get a true analysis…not sure if they would ever do this.
It appears to me all of these questions are self-serving, when in fact the Church according to Jesus is about serving others. Until it is doing that, it is just another self-serving organisation, meeting, etc.
Trust God.
I see Jesus acting on both sides of this issue. He definitely encouraged the best out of people…especially those who were down and and out, and viewed that way by everyone else. “A bent reed he would not break…” Jesus clearly understood that piling onto people who knew they had problems, could break them. Calling them sinners, and calling them out in their condition, would be downright hurtful.
OTOH, Jesus also addressed the crowds, saying, “If you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly father give good gifts to those who ask him?” He did not shy away from identifying the human condition, in ways that we would find objectionable, especially in this age where pumping up self-esteem is viewed as paramount.
The gospel clearly states that we have a problem, and that Jesus is the remedy. We also won’t seek its remedy, unless we first know that something is wrong…with us. I think that this is why well put together people, who have led respectable lives, find the gospel an offense, and the i.d. of sinner to be so objectionable.
To put it in real life times, it is no different than the term addict. An alcoholic will find no relief until they hit bottom, and can admit, “I am an alcoholic.” That is the doorway to sobriety. And it remains the way people at AA meetings continue to identify themselves, no matter how long they’ve been in the program…two days, or twenty years. It is not shaming…it is an acknowledgement of the truth of ones condition, need, and recovery. It is the gospel in action.
Hard for those with more concealed problems, and a higher view of themselves, to identify, and admit that they are no different at heart, from the hard core addict. Hard for church members and religious people, as well. As Paul said, “There is no difference…”
Thanks…
Frank
I understand what you are saying, Frank, and you have expressed both sides well.
I, nonetheless, see that the Adventist church comes down hard on the side of “sinning” and much less on the side of “forgiveness and mercy”. Since this is so, it is hard to have a more “open” church because everyone is always fearful of sinning and condemnation. When this dynamic changes then the Adventist church will be more “Christian” and less fundamentalist.
And, what has been traditionally emphasized as "sinning,"in the Adventist church, is transgression against a list of lifestyle standards…what one eats, wears, listens to, watches, etc. It artificially inflates the self regard of those who have will power and strong self discipline, and shames those who don’t.
The gospel of grace is a leveler. When shared, it equally exposes the needs of all, from the down and out, to the hardened legalist. It also reveals the healing love of God, equally for all. The father loved the angry, rule keeping son who remained at home, just as much as the returning prodigal.
The rule keeper seemed to have a harder time getting it, though…and stayed angry and judgmental. We do see that on here, don’t we? 
Thanks…
Frank
[quote=“frank_merendino, post:29, topic:8630”]
Hard for those with more concealed problems, and a higher view of themselves, to identify, and admit that they are no different at heart, from the hard core addict. Hard for church members and religious people, as well. As Paul said, “There is no difference…”
[/quote]This is so very true, Frank. I clean up pretty well! But, I know my own sinful nature, and I need Christ as much as the addict, the murderer, or the “whatever”. No difference…as you said.
Me, too! I can easily play games with semantics, rather than getting down to the business at hand of looking at Christ, and allowing him to help me really look at myself, and my relationships.
Thanks…
Frank
Yes, Frank…yes, indeed.
A non denominational youth minister once said to me that he never assumes people’s motives before hearing their stories. I believe this is a big issue. We impose our expectations on people and their motives before we have even listened to them.
I also think in churches like Adventism, there is more emphasis placed on outward behavior modification(sabbath keeping, not eating certain foods) than actual transformation by connecting people to God.
I did a really interesting survey of both of my churches on Sabbath Keeping. I had been asked by one of the elders to give a sermon on proper Sabbath observance, and felt that I could not do that, as there is a wide range of what people think is proper. The questions were like this:
Would it be OK to do this on Sabbath, Y/N
The answers divided themselves into 3 categories. Some everyone would do, some no one would do and some about half would do. I then told the congregations of the results, and suggested that there was some differences among them in how we observe Sabbath, and emphasized the relational aspect of meeting God rather than concentrating on rules. The elder was not pleased, but I think God is interested in us, and we need to not let the rules get in the way, nor let our actions get in the way either.
So I think the survey was useful.
Church is compulsive?? I am going to have to inform some of my members about this. Can i refer them to you?
Even the folk here have “sins” that they will condemn others for, while excusing their own. Can get pretty judgmental.
Allen
#8 Several years ago when attending Synagogue with my handicap friend this subject came up. And it was stated that one was suppose to do this every Friday evening to begin the Sabbath.
Tonight we were reading a love poem that begins the Sabbath readings in their “book of common prayer”, and the comment was again made regarding this was to be done every Friday evening, beginning of the Sabbath.
Dont know why this is in bold. Tried to get rid of it, but would not go away, Even tried Cancel and start over, but showed up again. SORRY. I guess those with cataracts or other vision problems can read it. 
Preaching on “proper Sabbath Observance” reeks of Judaism, specifically of the concerns of the Pharisees who were rebuked by Christ. Sabbath observance was never taught to Christians, whether
"proper" or even at all. Clinging to Judaism negates the enter reason for Christianity.