Carol I have been a lifelong SDA. I know no other church, so I would be churchless if I left. But right about now I feel so alone in the SDA church. It has taken a reactionary step backward and has aligned with the very religious right our church has warned about for years. Just look at the applause TW got when he spoke against affirming gays. About the time I think I will just leave, I go to church and listen to a video sermon from Loma Linda University church by George Knight. the title “why be an adventist?” It gave me pause to think when he said, “It is the hope of as better world to come.” I like George Knight, and I took that as God’s answer telling me to stick around.
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Well that makes sense now. Thanks Bill.
Boy o boy. After years of arguing this is depressing. Would have voted yes, but sure am not interested in10 or 15 yrs of this wearying self righteous drama. Give the issue a rest, for heaven’s sake! There is more to life than WO! How about Planned P. And the sale of fetal parts? Or some other REAL issue
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We became acquainted with Gerald Minchin when he was, I think, studying at the Seminary. The family lived near us and were sometimes Sabbath guests in our home. I remember him playing our old piano and making it ring! His daughter Eileen was my age, and his daughter Dorothy served with us in the former FED.
The oppression of women goes back to the early history of our world. It is immoral and leads to all kinds of harm to women. It IS a real issue!
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Allen, I’m sure prior to the vote you, like most here, knew that if the vote was a no to WO, that the real battle would only begin from there on (I honestly do not know what to make of it). This is what I was afraid of and so hoped that it would be yes. And lets be honest now, do we really think that the odd rebuke will hinder this movement that is taking place? And make no mistake, it is a movement. How it will turn out, I do not know. But I do become worried if I think on it for too long.
Personally, I would love more clarification on the Unions authority regarding WO. Do they only have authority to ordain as the GC stipulates, or do they also have the authority to define what ordination is.
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I’ve recently read several Facebook posts articulating the position that any notion against women’s ordination needs to be “educated” out of the church in future years. This position seems to go hand-in-hand with advocation of introducing post-colonial theory into Adventist theology. The introduction of this theory into our theology is inherently problematic, however. Many post-colonial theorists see Christianity as a colonizing force which changes the culture of the Other in harmful and irreversible ways. If we are to take this view to its logical end, it would mean that what Christ was asking us to do when He gave us the Great Commission to go into all the world preaching the gospel to all nations was essentially to colonize the world. He asked us to change perspectives so that instead of focusing on human cultures, we would ask people (the Other and ourselves) to focus on a heavenly culture. This inevitably and irreversibly changes culture. And many post-colonial theorists would tell us this approach to the Other is wrong, that we have no right to do what Christ asked us to do. While post-colonial theory may be helpful in showing people where they have had or where they have the mindset/attitude of a colonizer toward the Other, if we take the theory to its logical end, it negates our mission. Thus, I would caution anyone who believes that it has the answers we seek as a church looking to move forward from last Wednesday’s vote. It is important to remember that post-colonialism is not only a human theory but a secular theory.
Moreover, many post-colonial theorists would point out that the no vote that over half of the delegates gave was in some cases rooted in cultural beliefs (in other cases it was rooted, I would argue, in careful and prayerful reading of Scripture–let’s not be so quick to judge those who voted no–to call the outcome of the vote immoral is essentially to make a judgment call on everyone who voted no). To belittle the Other because of their cultural beliefs, calling them immoral, would be seen as nothing less than an attitude of arrogant paternalism coming from a colonizer.
I also find it interesting that the pop-up message cautions those of us who reply to articles to “criticize ideas, not people,” yet the article offers two indirect ad hominem logical fallacies–one on everyone who voted no and one on Ted Wilson as “mindless.”
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The easiest way to make a short tree look tall is cut down everything taller around it.
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I am positively sure that if you were a woman you would have the conviction that WO is a real issue as much as when you walked out of a six figure salary to be a pastor.
There is a word called “empathy.” It is well known that females understand and appreciate empathy more than males.
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For me the question is not so much “should I stay in the Adventist church and work for change from within?” as it is “Does the Adventist church still exist?”
Is it still the Adventist church when we have entrenched Catholic ecclesiology for at least the next 5 years?
Is it still the Adventist church when our stance on Women’s Ordination as voted by GCSA2015 betrays that we have created a role for the “pastor” that is anti-Gospel, without any biblical foundation whatsoever, and worst of all, profoundly and irredeemably anti-Christ?
Is it still the Adventist church when we have top-down, authoritarian leadership that no longer in any way resembles the anti-creed, priesthood-of-all-believers approach to Church that our founding mothers and fathers believed in so passionately?
Is it still the Adventist church when we fail to perceive and respond to the Coming of God, that announces Justice, Grace, Renewal, and the outpouring of the Spirit on all flesh?
As much as I would like to answer differently, after GCSA2015, I am very much afraid that the answer is no - the SDA church no longer exists. You see, there is something far, far more serious at stake here than many of us realize. Not simply a question of whether or not to ordain women. Instead, in how we answer this question, we declare our willingness or lack thereof to be the Church, to be Adventist, to be Christian. The question was put to us and the answer that came back did not pass the test.
If there is anything left of Adventism it is only to be found in fragments. Individual church members, committed pastors, Spirit-filled leaders, who understand that to be a church that takes it’s mandate from the Coming God means to be radically open to justice, equality, and God’s surprising direction in the world. Those fragments can be found both within and without the organized body which calls itself (perhaps illegitimately) the “Seventh Day Adventist church”. Where we place ourselves is not merely a matter of personal choice - sometimes the choice is thrust upon us by the direction the “church” takes or fails to take.
I can’t live in this world anymore - there is no oxygen here. But fragments, which exist because of brokenness, can also be glorious. When they reflect the light of the Son the horizon is filled with a rainbow of promise. Fragments are all we have left, by God’s grace they may be enough.
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Even if only the GC has that authority, it has no policy forbidding the ordination of women.
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My problem with most (Excessive. - website editor) WO proponents is not even from the fact that they support WO. It stems from the fact that they are some of the most elitist, conceited arrogant people I have ever seen. It is often how people act when they have lost or something that they do not like has happened that is a testament to who they are. Statements such as this,
that I think the church made the correct decision. Ted Wilson is acting and representing the majority of adventism but you constantly refer to him as autocratic which shows how you truly view him and the rest of us lowly adventists. The funny thing is that your arguments are the same ones that Korah, Dathan and Abiram used. (Excessive. - website editor) We are almost about to go home and as long as I am alive, God willing I will always stand for the truth and never let the mixed multitude take us back to Egypt.
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Until we ensure gender balance in delegate selection, we will be having the debate about women’s ordination until Jesus returns. What could we expect from a delegate contingent with 83% men?
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Or maybe they are just “standing for truth”?
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I never met Gerald Minchin, but I got acquainted with his widow, Leona, and their daughter, Dorothy Minchin-Comm, back when the two women (and son-in-law, Walter) lived on the old campus of our senior college in the Philippines.
Roy Branson was one of the two Roys (Benton was the other Roy) who were still at CUC in Maryland when I attended my son’s graduation there. My son had insisted I should meet them, before I leave this planet.
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Tony
GREAT QUESTION!!!
Does a UNION have the AUTHORITY TO DEFINE what ORDINATION IS?
CAN? WILL? Someone answer Tony’s question?
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Ted Wilson representing the Majority of Seventh day Adventists.
We will NEVER KNOW.
Only ONE name was delivered. There was NO opportunity to CHOOSE among several names and then to have a Run Off Vote between the Highest Two.
So was it a manipulated vote?
In some countries EVERYONE gets to vote. But only one name on the ballot.
THIS is what happened here.
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The majority of the church believe in a literal six day creation and Ted also subscribes to that as well. The majority of the church is against WO and ted also subscribes to that. I believe it would be incredibly naive to believe otherwise.
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Elaine,
It seems that certain positions in SDAism require that diagnosis.
When I realized this about a year ago, I just withdrew my candidacy, remember?
This because I realized that I actually didn’t qualify… 
@elmer_cupino
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