Do you see inspiration as cultural, local and limited to time and place? When God inspires, his prophets does God make mistakes? With pastors and church leaders we acknowledge their sermons and books are mostly temporary. Their ideas grow and change through time. Do we give EGW a pass when we call her a prophet yet refuse to follow her often outdated educational, medical and health advice? Some will always make excuses for her. Perhaps prophets as more human and liable to error as the rest us, yet God still speaks through them.
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Theologically Ellen White made one outlandish prediction regarding the last generation. It comes very close to the Holy Flesh movement in Indiana. We are witnessing a revival of that in The writings of F. D. Nichols, Herbert Douglass, Ken Woods, and now at the head of the GC. Robert Brinsmead tried to make sense by his cleansing of the soul temple with the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, even he came to reject that view. Sadly he became an agnostic. That is why the first chapters of Romans are so dear. I find great hope in Phil 2: 4-11. It is not what man can do but what Christ has done. May we each live in Gratitude and Generosity daily. Which has nothing to do with belts or suspenders or coffee vs postum.
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Barry –
My Jewish friends pray to THEIR ONE GOD.
God answers their prayers.
WHY is That???
they do not believe in the Trinity either.
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Each Christian is commissioned to be a messenger/teacher—“Go ye therefore and teach all nations—“ We have models of such teaching in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, the writer of Hebrews, and Paul. Let us stick with their testimony.
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It amuses me that those of you who castigate Ellen White for being a plagiarist have no trouble accepting the gospel writers, especially Luke, who are accused of the same thing.
I have no doubt that most who attack Ellen White, had you been living days of the Isaiah, Noah, and the rest of the prophets, would have been at the front of the pack mocking and deriding them.
These posts I have been reading are the 21st century version of mockery. Nothing new under the sun. @blc
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Luke’s medicine is out of date, but his Gospel writings and travelogue are consistent with history and other Gospel writers. Ellen White not only copied but distorted Scripture to fit her disappointment. The Investigative Judgment is a very poor apology and totally without Scriptural merit. can you say the same of Dr. Luke.?
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You have a distorted view of Ellen White, Tom. Her writings are 100% scripture based. Your Fordian views on IJ are what is askew, not hers.
But you don’t have to take my word for it. We will all find out for certain within a lifetime. Hebrews 9:27.
Yes… consistent. That is why people accuse him of plagiarism… consistently copying the gospel writers. I don’t believe it, but if you accuse EGW of it, you need to apply your standards evenly across the board.
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A REAL problem with Ellen White’s visions is that what was “shown” to her seems to depend a lot on what James believed at the time–until her income separated them. In her early visions there were only two thrones at the source of the River of Life. Did the Third Person of the Trinity have to stand? And I can’t find any investigative judgment in her earliest visions. And she failed to tell us whether she saw our High Priest after the Order of Melchizidech wearing the vestments that were specified for the Order of Aaron that our illustrations always show.
.
Originally, the wise virgins represented the Adventists who were the the wedding guests, but she subsequently saw them waiting for the Bridegroom to return from the metaphorical(?) wedding.
Unfortunately, she never explained why angels talked to her in the King James dialect. Or why, in scenes she was shown, they spoke the very words found in the KJV. Wouldn’t it be great if she quoted the word’s she heard when she witnessed Jesus’ delivery of His sermon on the mount?
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Totally agree. Ellen reflected what others around her believed.
You have listed some great examples of the problems with EGW. The list could be so long, and many things are just preposterous. About 15 yrs ago, I read an old copy of Spiritual Gifts…wow, it was so strange and bizarre, I could barely believe what I was reading!
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My Christsinity is based upon Paul and reinforced by my friends, Fred Veltmann, Edward Heppenstall, Graham Maxwell, Friz Guy, and by my reading of Bruce, Lloyd Jones, Stott, Bruce, Dunn and others. The Review in the days of Nichols and Woods were enough to dull my views of traditional Adventism. I recall an editorial by Woods in which he discredited a study group by writing they only discussed “mere justification”. I wrote him saying certainly one cannot use the term mere on what Christ has done. The bottom line is Adventism demotes Christ in order to elevate White.
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Very poor argumentation Tony. This dog was hunting well when there was no access to information, and it still hunts among those who never studied this issue in depth. But anyone who decides to study the issue in depth will inevitably end up finding the fallacy of your statement.
Of course you have to mention Ford negatively, certainly in the hope that people will avoid his writings and teachings. But I encourage everyone to read what Ford has given us, especially the Glacier View document. Then, they can make their mind BY THEMSELVES.
@gford1
By the way it’s great to see you back. Elmer @elmer_cupino was asking about you a few days ago. You promised something to us but never delivered, remember? The “Biblical Foundation of LGT for Dummies.” We are still waiting for that so that we can check what are we actually missing about the perfectionism heresy. I am sure you are working on that, correct?
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Yup… I expected as much. Heppenstall ruined generations of Adventists with his New Theology. Glad he has been mothballed by the church. Sadly, his influence still lingers.
@GeorgeTichy… hang on. I will get back to you. Between getting 30 days probation for calling people hard heads, summer masters classes, and work, you folks have been bumped to “when/if I have time” status.
It’s interesting, I got time out for saying “hard head”, but Teichman just got his posts removed (but no suspension) for saying some people have… well, let’s say inadequacies in dimensions of the nether regions. Yes, there is favoritism here.
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What did he teach that was that wrong???
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Historic have you read The Man Who is God and Our High Priest. Yes they are out of print but Herbie Douglass’ book Why Jesus Waits remains in stock. So I have a minimum high regard for current GC thought on Ellen White et al.
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Read Andreasen… the voice of historic Adventism, then read Heppenstall and his New Theology. Pre-QOD/Post-QOD.
I have Douglass’ Why God Waits among many other of his books. I am quite fond of A Fork in the Road… which Remnant Publications just re-released by the way.
Andreasen? Oh my, this is not a good way to go. But this is just my opinion.
“What did he teach that was wrong???”
“…then read Heppenstall…”
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Lol. I have.
We will just have to agree to disagree on EH and MLA. That is the crux of our theological disagreements.