Is Jesus the Fundamental Belief? A Report from San Diego


(Spectrumbot) #1

Is Jesus all? Is Jesus the focus, the center, the foundation? Is Jesus the fundamental belief among all the others, the single criterion of every conviction the church holds dear?

From the beginning, at least some Adventists, including Ellen White, have said Yes, and since the month of July in the year 2010 the leaders of the One Project have been urging us all to say Yes. One Project “gatherings” have swept through the church’s older strongholds, and worriers who suspect surprises from below—ones that proceed without sanction or supervision from the General Conference—have wrung their hands and muttered their dark warnings. But enthusiasm has persisted.

“Jesus. All.” If that was the refrain that would not go away, the actual One Project—the two-day preaching and worship festivals so many have come to love—is coming to an end. The last gathering, so the leaders say, is the one that began yesterday in San Diego. Again hundreds of people, nearly a thousand, have come to a hotel to sing and to listen and to ponder, or “re-calibrate.” By tomorrow, they will know more about why the pastors who started all of this think it’s time for some new thing.

The first song said “forever.” God is loving, faithful and strong—forever. Moments later worshippers sang Jesus: “Jesus, You alone are worthy.” “Soon and coming Savior,” they went on, “We will glorify your name.”

After the singing the 18-minute sermons began, words of Scripture proclaimed from the platform at the center of the hotel meeting room. The rich-voiced Dilys Brooks began her reflection on “the Sons of Thunder” with unaccompanied intoning of “Oh, How I Love Jesus,” the theme of the final gathering. Then she told the story of her own calling through the lens provided by these two characters from the Jesus story, neither of whom was admirable from the start.

Transformations take time, she said. All Christians are “works in progress,” and it’s “not okay to marginalize” anyone. People will “know who we are” when we love one another.

Karl Haffner followed, again taking a New Testament story of the people in Jesus’ life as the basis for reflection. He zeroed in on the woman who anointed Jesus’ feet at Simon’s dinner party—and on the comfort she heard: “Your sins are forgiven, go in peace.” Riffing on the overall theme of the gathering, he said, “Oh, How I (Want to) Love Jesus.” In the church of Christ, we must welcome others as Jesus welcomed the woman.

Listeners seated at tables shifted now to conversation about what they had heard, continuing the One Project pattern: You listen and you ponder—together. Conversation in indispensable.

William Johnsson spoke on the “forgotten women of Galilee” described in Luke 8. Jesus’ followers—his disciples—included women, some well-off and even well-connected, like Joanna, whose husband was the manager of Herod’s household. The New Testament pictures her and other women as unconfined by their domestic roles and as leaders in the financial support of Jesus’ ministry. Johnsson lamented the way the developing church came to push women aside even though they served well during Jesus’ life on earth and were the first to report his resurrection. “Who dares now,” Johnsson asked his applauding listeners, “to stand in their way?”

Brandy Kirstein took Psalm 22 for her text, and considered how, in his darkest hour, Jesus himself asked why God had forsaken him. Her remarks touched on human vulnerability. We may be honest to God, express what we feel, pose our questions unashamed. Kirstein ended with words of pain taken from her own journal, a reminder that sermonic reflection must return again and again to acknowledgement of hurt and of the doubt that goes along with it.

After the ample lunch break, participants returned to song and word. Chris Oberg spoke on Mary and Martha and their brother Lazarus, dead four days in the story John 11 tells. When Jesus finally arrived, Mary exclaimed: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” Oberg said, “Mary’s my girl,” meaning to express the sadness and frustration she herself feels when death intrudes, or when dreams of justice (as in the case of the church’s regard for women) are again and again deferred. But the story, Oberg said to conclude, evokes hope. Lazarus came forth from his tomb; dark endings need not be the final word.

Terry Swenson took the story of the disciples at sea, buffeted by wind and fear and the sense of the demonic. In their time the sea was an adversary, a source of chaos, and their “man-made boat” seemed no match for it. But Jesus came walking on water and offering assurance, and he invited his disciples to walk on water themselves. Peter responded, then fell short in faith. But Jesus rescued him, and the point remains to this day. “You were created,” Swenson said, “to be water-walkers. Get out of the boat. Change the world.”

After another re-calibration break, Laurence Turner turned attention to Joseph. He lost his reputation as a “righteous” man, or tzadik, when he chose “courageous righteousness” over the letter of the law, or Torah, which required him to renounce and publicly repudiate Mary for being pregnant out of wedlock. Turner suggested that when Jesus sat, as a boy, at the feet of his disgraced father, learning the meaning of his tradition from someone their small village now looked down upon, he acquired the sensitivities that would enable him to welcome sinners. Against those who today define righteousness by the letter of the law and look askance at “those who don’t shape up,” what Jesus learned and lived remains the ideal for all disciples.

When a leper outcast begged for healing, Jesus made him whole. Iki Taimi, himself familiar with being an “illegal immigrant,” made this story the basis for a reflection on “access”—on how Jesus gives all who live on the margins a path into community and renewal of life. Taimi told bracing stories of his own acceptance by academy teachers and administrators. These were people, he said, who saw him “as a person” and helped him become the pastor that he is today. Such is the job of all whom Jesus anoints for service.

Table talk ensued again. Then Randy and Austin Roberts, father and (millennial) son, made two stories from Luke—one about the rich young ruler, one about the thief who gave himself to Jesus at the very end of life—a window for looking at inter-generational cooperation. The young have the potential to make a great difference, said the father; those not so young can also offer themselves, said the son.

Mark Witas interpreted the story of Jesus and the woman at the well, herself a Samaritan and many-times divorced, as the embrace and empowerment of a victim. Divorce was then the prerogative of men, and women suffered under its unforgiving lash. The woman Jesus met had lost all self-esteem, but he spoke to her with unexpected kindness, offered her “living water,” and appointed her to an evangelistic mission. Women today all too often feel what Witas called the “scorn of the remnant,” but Jesus by his example at the well rebukes such scorn and offers hope to all who have been hurt.

Paddy McCoy introduced the Lord’s Supper that brought the day’s activities to their climax. Did the taking of the symbols, the food and drink that Jesus offered, renew the participants in their solidarity with him? That is what McCoy prayed for, and what the One Project has been urging Adventists these past eight years to think through. On day two in San Diego the work continues.

Charles Scriven is Board Chair of Adventist Forum, the organization that publishes Spectrum.

The One Project logo courtesy of The1Project.org.

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/8566

#2

How could focusing on Jesus, our Saviour, cause any Christ follower to wring his hands? Jesus said, “If I be lifted up I will draw all men and women to Me.”

Are we making an idol of some other “exclusive” message?

In my opinion, we could never focus too much on Jesus, His love, His offering, His grace, His gifts, His parables, His life, His qualities, His magnificent Holy character.

@vandieman

This is outright defamation by people who have apparently never attended. I have, and these charges are totally off base, deceptive, and close to blasphemy. Jesus is uplifted. I suspect these detractors and accusers have never attended or have heard gossip and false framing by someone who is threatened, suspicious, and uninformed. As President Abraham Lincoln appropriately said, “People are usually down on what they are not up on.”

And to those who believe focusing on the Trinity would be “better,” let’s just remind ourselves of the many topics Adventists focus on with seminars, initiatives, campaigns, literature, books of the year, themes, and “The Year of the __________.”

We’re talking health, stewardship, Revelation, Old Testament Covenants, the mark of the beast, lifestyle, and on and on.

It is so refreshing to attend a once-in-a-ifetime weekend event focused on Jesus.

Anti-Christ-focused critics border on sounding like anti-Christs, worried that something else is being left out.

I’m sorry for those who did not have the privilege of the spiritual feast of reflecting on Jesus. In fact, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ARE ONE and included in the study.

Those calling the One Project the Omega are dishonest and have no knowledge of what their suspicious minds create. This is a sad day.


(jeremy) #3

true, but the one project has received a lot of opposition from conservatives, many of whom have claimed that it challenges traditional adventism, and some of whom have actually called it the fulfillment of egw’s prediction about an omega of apostasy and deception…

i think the fact that it’s coming to an end suggests there’s something wrong with it…


#4

Perhaps shedding some light as to why many have some issues with the One Project might provide some needed perspective on this issue.


(Frankmer7) #6

If focusing on Jesus alone is the omega of apostacies, then this church is truly a mess. Just listen to how outrageous that statement about Jesus truly is!

Frank


(efcee) #7

Certain factions of Adventism can be obsessed with Jesus as he is revealed in the book of Revelation to the expense of how he is revealed in the Gospels and by the Apostle Paul. I don’t think anyone doubts that Jesus is All. It is hopeful when we are able to present a complete picture of Jesus and leave nothing out.


#8

I agree. I’m all for major details/reasons as to what drives an agenda.
Let’s start with what agenda drives “ONE”.

The simplistic phrases…It’s all about Jesus, It’s all about grace, It’s all about love, It’s all about a relationship, Jesus is enough are parroted to counter certain emphasized teachings that rub certain SDA the wrong way.

Since most (75%-90%) churchgoers have never read the whole bible and probably not even the new testament, most likely they are secular fanatics hoping to hear some shallow, superficial, flesh appeasing sugar coated, soft sell doctrine.

I can understand some frustration from members hearing sermons from inept pastors and also being blasted by 3 months of SS stewardship classes followed by 3 months of paranoid promoting last day event SS classes.

What chance will Spectrum embrace Jesus only when it constantly has issues on W.O. , LGBT, Trash EG White, racial tensions, can Ted Wilson??

Maybe a catchphrase , cliché , abstract, ambiguous, obscure religious lingo, yet it ends up so subjective based on who is parroting it. As far as saturated…I think the agenda is to make it polyunsaturated and simplistic. so as to be just a counter to difficult to embrace teachings that Rom 8:7 churchians cringe about.

99% of Christianity=deceived because of 4th commandment abrogation. BUT… there are more denominations that embrace Sabbath besides SDA…

AZ expresses it in a pithy manner, whereas I posted an analysis as to motivation.

A general point is that SDA experience what Paul said were characteristics of Jews…Rom 10:2 & 21…fanatic, insubordinate, gainsayers


(Thomas J Zwemer) #9

The sum is found in the first verses of the Gospel according to John. But the entire Bible tells us why. let us begin with our need and find in Christ our fulfillment. The formula is Guilt-Grace- Gratitude -Generosity. Freely we have received, freely give. A good feeling doesn’t cover it.


(Ray Smith) #10

The fundamental belief for many Adventists is the Sabbath, going to church on Saturday, or Sunday if you live in certain Pacific islands. Think Colossians 2:16, 17 and what we are saying when we insist that the weekly Sabbath is the reality together with Jesus.

I love the way kids think. They’re literal, down to earth and often a few jumps ahead of the rest of us. I think I can guess what this kid was really thinking and it was somewhat deeper than some here seem to take the expression that it’s all about Jesus.

If we could come to a realisation of what Jesus really does mean to us personally and how much His teachings, His life, His death, His resurrection, His love, His saving grace, His presence in us through His Holy Spirit pervade everything we do in life, perhaps we would realise there is more to this one liner and the One-Project than we like to admit. Jesus does impact everything we do and say and think and believe. He is God and He is our all and in all to quote Paul.

One-liners can be overdone for sure, but let’s not exclude Christ from anything that matters in this life. It’s Christ who gave substance, meaning and reality to all the shadows of the Old Testament. He is the living heart and soul of the new covenant/New Testament.

Perhaps it would be well for us to read John Stott’s, “The Cross of Christ” on a regular basis and keep in mind the deep and all-pervasive impact of the cross and the resurrection. When the chips are down, that’s what matters, what He did for us there. The rest fits into place from there.

Dennis, if we want to talk in terms of DNA, Christ was born with the spiritual DNA of the Holy Spirit, the same spiritual DNA from Christ that is ours when we are born again of the Holy Spirit. The difference for us is that sin still lurks in our flesh (but not in our newly created spirit) like a foreign invader. Thankfully Christ dealt with that as well on the cross.


(James J Londis) #11

While “Jesus Only” or “Jesus is All” is an arresting catchphrase and saturated with meaning, my sense is that “God” is more inclusive which includes the “trinity.” Jesus pointed to the “Father” and the “Spirit” repeatedly. “God is love,” and “For God so loved the world that he gave . . .” strikes my sensibility as more powerful than “Jesus is love” (also true in its own way, but less comprehensive theologically). Paul’s epistles are no less theological even while being strongly Christological. There is a strain in modern evangelicalism which sometimes too easily sentimentalizes and over-familiarizes “Jesus.” My sensibilities on this may be due to my generation I fear.


(Peter Marks) #12

James,

I have similar sensibilities. Yes, ours in a trinitarian faith through and through!

What was Jesus’ answer when John the Baptist’s disciples asked - “Are you the One?” His answer was to invite his questioners to watch his deeds and words since these proclaimed the arrival of His messianic kingdom.

Jesus had his own catchphrase - “the Gospel of the Kingdom.” He came to proclaim by word and deed the establishment of the inbreaking kingdom of God. And the coming of this Kingdom was foreshowed through-out the Scripture. Jesus often pointed to His fulfilment of these things.

Which all leads me to conclude that the Gospel of the Kingdom properly understood and proclaimed will always have a serious prophetic component. For example, the four great prophetic strands of the Book of Daniel all are kingdom prophecies. But all four of them eventually focus on the advent of Jesus as their ultimate fulfilment.


(Steve Mga) #13

Jeremy –
What is “WRONG” with ONE is that it is ONLY being for Seventh day Adventists.

What is “WRONG” is that it is not being focused to the World in general. NOT open
to ALL persons in the community where it is being held.
YES!! People need to meet the REAL JESUS of the Gospels, letters of the NT, the OT.
What does it mean to take up one’s cross with Jesus and follow Him while He carries His?
People need to know.


(DENNIS HOFER) #14

Reply deleted by Dog Tail


(Bill Cork) #15

Why? A group of chaplains and college church pastors decided to have some conversations. They kepr them up for a few years. They decided it was time to move on to other things. What church program lasts forever? What activity between friends lasts forever?


(Sirje) #16

When you hang around Adventism long enough you end up with a whole package of beliefs - perhaps 128 + 1 to be specific - also called pillars of our faith. “Pillars” are used as a foundation, like the song we teach our very youngest about the wise man who built his house - upon a rock. What is the Adventist foundation - the one thing that would remain when all else gets shed - one thing that undergirds everything else?

It bogglers the mind how anything but Christ “and Him alone” can be that foundation for a CHRISTIAN. Logically, Christ has to be that foundation for a CHRISTian. “Christ and Him crucified” defines everything else from Genesis to Revelation. Everything else are the tributaries to the main stream - tributaries that must join at the cross to have any meaning or significance.

I do understand it’s not enough to simply parrot the name of Jesus to the point where it becomes common in conversation, even belittling to the His person. Familiarity is not what I’m talking about; but rather, primacy of the gospel to all else we can learn.

PS- After reading some of the objections to the supremacy of Christ to the Christian faith, I need to ask - which one, or combination of beliefs, are you going to rely on to get you through those pearly gates - our dress code; our potluck recipes, vegan and otherwise; our undying loyalty to the 2300 day prophesy that, by now, has outlived any computer in your pocket to sort out who is going to QUALIFY to live next to your mansion on a street named GOLDEN? Perhaps you can present your “certificate of ordination” as proof of your qualification - perhaps the many hours you have selflessly worked on the church bulletin; or the hours you rehearsed for those special programs?

I believe I need to repost a statement by Oswald Chambers - The greatest competitor of devotion to Jesus is service to Him…We are not to battle for God, but to be used by God in His battles. Are we being more devoted to service than to Jesus Christ? And, I might add - are we relying on the Adventist creed, to raise us into the clouds at His coming?


(AZ) #17

Did Jesus teach that he is “all?” Most important, unequivocally. But - “all?” Is that all that he taught, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus?

One time I heard a friend tell his son, “loving Jesus and loving each other is all that matters in this home.” That same evening my friend tried to get his son ready for bed only to receive this reply — Why do I need to brush my teeth, bathe, and put my Nintendo away, I thought you said Jesus was all that matters?

Either Jesus is all, period, or…Jesus is at the heart of a lot of other things that are not just “Jesus.”

So go with the former and you need to throw out the Sabbath as well as the other fundamental beliefs. Or go with the latter and recognize that the one project has gone to an extreme.


#18

Your comment really resonates with me. I have come to the conclusion, after 50+ years in the church, that I am compelled to be a Christian first, not an SDA first. My takeaway from the church is that I must be an SDA only, because it’s the only true faith. All other churches, and “Christians” are suspect at best. So, to be a Christian is somehow inferior to being an SDA. In my opinion, that might be at the root of the church establishment’s discomfort with the One Project. Mustn’t associate yourself with the riffraff…

Makes me question, not for the first time, whether this is the right church for me.


(DENNIS HOFER) #19

Did Jesus share in Mary’s ‘fallen’ DNA or did he somehow take the ‘unfallen’ DNA of long-dead Adam and Eve before they realized they were ‘naked’ and ‘ashamed’ with faithless guilt ?
The reason that SDA leaders ‘dare’ ‘now’ “to stand in their” women’s “way” is the same reason which William Johnsson defended in the interview with Walter Martin which is broadcast, still, at the web link attached below . . . : QOD

So, the real question is, "How does QOD stand in the way of the real Christ, who is the true cult leader of every true member of the Christian cult-ure – Female and Male – and must be ‘touched’ – not un-touched, with the feelings of my fallen flesh infirmities – not my unfallen DNA perfections – in order to reach me where the woman, Mary, was and I still am : in fallen DNA-flesh ? Is Christ ‘not far off’’, or ‘far off’ from me ?

If the baby Jesus had the DNA of the unfallen Adam and Eve, then Mary would have ‘exploded’ and died during the gestation of a giant in her womb. It makes my head spin to try to ‘read’ what QOD has to say about the nature of Christ, NOT because of what the Ellen quotes say, but because of how its publishers wish me to twist her clear Biblical statements into mysterious self-contradictions with their editorial tricks.

Pastor Johnsson, about 6 minutes into the video attached, you clearly stated, “The leadership of the Seventh-day Adventist Church has not repudiated Questions On Doctrine.” Have you, yourself, done so yet, especially those parts regarding the ‘fallen’ human DNA-flesh that clothed the Divine, humble ‘Mind of Christ’ ?

If you have not yet repudiated that arrogant false QOD assumption made by SDA Leaders to appease non-SDAs – SDA leaders who still did not wish to be of the ‘cult of Christ’ after Christ made the offer to their spiritual ancestors, circa 1888 – then when you finally do, YOU, yourself, will no longer stand in the way of ‘fallen’ SDA women who wish to be ordained as SDA ministers of the ‘Spiritual’ Gospel of ‘Christ in you, the hope of glory’ . . . regardless of their merely DNA-expressed ‘female’ flesh.

If QOD were to be banned, forever, from the affections of SDA Leaders, then they would see that it is not merely permissible, but necessary, as ‘Christians’ to ordain members of any DNA expression within the ‘Cult-ure of Christ’, because such ‘cult’ members are ‘born’, are ‘natured’, by the Holy Spirit as ‘Children of our Father in Heaven’, and mere ‘flesh’ – whether ‘fallen’ or ‘unfallen’, ‘male’ or ‘female’, ‘gentile’ or ‘Jew’ – has absolutely no power to rob us of that Heavenly Father. Jesus proved that fact even in ‘fallen’ flesh, when Adam and Eve – even in ‘unfallen’ flesh – ‘fell’ by doubting that same fact regarding ‘Our Father, which art in Heaven.’

So, please pastor William Johnsson, stop trying to confuse what God has made clear. Repudiate the spirit of QOD and step out of the way of SDA women of the Christian ‘cult-ure’ who wish to be publicly ‘ordained’ as ‘pastors’ under that Shepherd that not only died for them, but did so ‘without sin’ in His mind and heart – in His ‘Spirit’ – in Godly defiance against their own ‘fallen flesh’ which He also endured with them, due to His mother Mary’s own non-immaculate, DNA-flesh contribution. True ‘born again’ Christian cult-ure members recognize the difference between ‘flesh’ birth and ‘Spirit’ birth, and which one now matters most to ‘Our Father who art in Heaven’.

Like Adam, Christ could have ‘fallen’ in His mind-and-heart-‘nature’, just as easily as did Eve and Adam in perfect-flesh-‘nature’ in perfect Eden. . . but He did not, even in ‘fallen’ flesh, even in the hellish scene at Golgotha, because he always beheld the friendly Face of His Father enshrined in His mind and heart, even when that Face hid Itself from Him as He ‘became our sinful mind-and-heart-nature for us’ and died the Spiritual death He in no way deserved – Himself being faithful to the end – to demonstrate that the Death that occurred beginning at the wrong ‘faithless’ tree in Eden was ‘Spiritual’ leading to the death of ‘flesh’, also. Not the other way around.

Therefore ‘born again’ Christians do not mock the ‘rebirth’ of mind and heart through the Holy Spirit, by focusing, instead, on their mother’s ‘womb’ and the weak power of mere ‘flesh’ – fallen or unfallen – as did Nicodemus. Like Christ, Christian ‘cult’ members must be ‘kept by the Power of God through faith’ in the Father (I Peter 1:5) just as Christ demonstrated from the weakest of possible ‘flesh’ situations, so that even a hard-hearted Roman Centurion was compelled to confess, “Truly this was the Son of God !”, as that Son’s flesh died, in faithful victory of Godly mind and heart, over mere matter, mere DNA-flesh AND over fallen faithless human mind and heart . . . all of this was taught to SDAs in that ‘1888 Message’ that according to some SDA scholars we SDAs supposedly ‘accepted’ after 1888 and before 1957’s ‘QOD’ . . . (I can read. Where do you think I got it ? In electrical apprentice school ? No, I read the official GC Daily Bulletin transcripts from the post-1888 era with my own eyes, over and over and over again, until by God’s grace I began to ‘get the picture’, for myself.)

Women’s Ordination is not going to happen in the SDA church – due largely to non-Christian SDA ‘cults’ that have now formed behind well-publicized ‘evangelizing’ SDA media stars – as long as the ‘spirit’ behind 1957’s QOD’s rejection of the ‘1888’-era messages still exists in those who oppose, those who oppose, WO. We didn’t get into this SDA mess by mere ‘surprise’. No, instead of ‘Steps to Christ’, we took ‘Steps to Mess’. And the only way out is to retrace the wrong steps back to that ‘Fork in the Road’ described by Herbert Douglass, who with Raymond Cottrell was told to stop ‘editing’ QOD, 61 years ago, by better-‘respected’ SDA scholars.

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” John 6:63

Shame on Walter Martin, the evangelical ‘Christian’, for not being able to explain these words of his Christian ‘cult’ Leader – Christ, Himself – to William Johnsson !

It was not the perfect flesh of Adam and Eve that failed.
It was not the imperfect flesh of Christ that succeeded.
The battle with faithless sin was and is still fought in the spiritual realm of the thoughts,
just as the mocked and pilloried A.T. Jones repeated Paul’s ‘Gentile’ Gospel to the SDA church.

What ‘race’ or ‘sex’ is a thought ?

Why do Spiritual ‘children’ of the all-powerful, all-convicting, all-convincing . . . ‘Father’ in Heaven beg for approval from flesh-obsessed ‘Babylon’ and her ‘evangelical’ ‘daughters’ ? . . . unless they have become ‘prodigal’, flesh-obsessed children ?

“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
~ Jesus to Samaritan Woman at Jacob’s Well, in John 4:24 NKJV

The Father’s convincing Holy Spirit came to God’s SDA children in the 1888-era. If our SDA leaders truly accepted that Spirit – in their spirits truly worth-shipped that convicting Gift as precious, just as the Samaritan woman did – then why are we SDAs still acting like ‘widows and orphans’ without Husband and Father, begging favors from, fleshy, fallen Babylon, and acting like wealthy, divorced, but ‘tax exempt’. . . Queen Laodice the 1st * ?

  • see Wikipedia, ‘Laodice I’.
    ‘Lao-dice’ means ‘justice’ – or ‘righteousness’ – ‘of the people’ Another SDA Review editor, Uriah Smith, wrote at least twice on ‘Our Righteousness’ – the ‘righteousness of (God’s) the people’ – as opposed to Jones’ and Waggoner’s ‘Christ, Our Righteousness’ – at least twice after ‘1888’, confirming that the SDA church is still, the ‘Laodicean church’ . . . until we publicly ‘repudiate’ taking each and every wrong ‘fork’ in our SDA history ‘road’ behind those leaders we wrongly ‘worship’ in Christ’s place. Kellogg and Jones and Waggoner were ‘dismembered’ for teaching ‘panentheism’, but Uriah Smith, I’m sure, died an SDA ‘member in good standing’ ? ! ? How can we SDAs presume to take God’s Gospel ‘truth’ publicly to the world, until we publicly ‘repudiate’ all of the errors regarding that ‘Gospel’ which we still enshrine in the proud secret heart of our own SDA history ? . . . errors which are directly opposed to God’s Gospel ‘truth’, though taught by our ‘fleshy’ male ‘heroes’ ? Cowardly male scholars all around the ‘Christian’ circle, leave poor, weak Grandma Ellen to take the whole public blame for our SDA GC ‘cult’ situation, while many non-Christian SDA ‘cults’ have formed behind strong leading SDA men since 1888, who may have even less Biblical defense of their settled opinions than Ellen supposedly doesn’t, and who yet ‘plagiarize’ the name ‘Seventh-day Adventist’, as if they, alone, can define that name and all that it implies. How about the Uriah Smith cult ? . . . the Froom cult ? . . . the Batchelor cult ? . . . the Wieland cult ? . . . the Jones cult ? . . . the Knight cult ? . . . the Duffield cult ? When will it be the 'wherever the Spirit of Christ leads us forward in His Truth . . . ‘cult’ ? Not until we publicly admit that we have repeatedly taken the wrong ‘fork in the road’ to get into the mess we’re in, now. May that time come sooner than later ! If, ‘We would see Jesus’, then we must look at Him through our own eyes, and not through another’s. If we would show Jesus, then we must step aside, open the door of personal spiritual pride, and stop blocking the view of the road forward for others.

(Peter) #20

Let us not forget that belief in the Trinity was debated, refuted, and ultimately accepted over a period of several years by early Adventists. Before expressing opinions about Trinitarianism, it is valuable to have studied the history of it within our own denomination.


(George Tichy) #21

INVITATION:

This is a great theme for a broader discussion. But we cannot post more than ONE comment here. No discussions/conversations allowed here.

Did you all know that there is a Spectrum site where anyone can participate and post as many comments as wanted? Yes, it’s called the LOUNGE.

So, those who are interested in further conversations, please just post here a request addressed to the @webEd, asking to be allowed access to the LOUNGE. They do it without reservation, just takes probably 24 hrs or so (unless they are sleeping, then it can take 72 hsr!!!)… :innocent:

We would like to hear from more people in the LOUNGE! Come and join the discussions about the same articles you find here. They are replicated in the LOUNGE.