Yes…this is the issue from where all spiritual things go to hell in a hand basket…sadly.
1 Like
To market successfully the snake-oil offered by most companies (including the official SDA church) requires a lack of morals, integrity and honesty. Being not qualified to market the official SDA church brand is a virtue.
3 Likes
The Adventist church leadership rejected the 3rd Angel’s Message 135 years ago when they were forced to confront the fact that it points to the Laodicean Message for the Source of ‘the Faith of Jesus’, being Jesus Himself. Simply put, ‘they’ cannot ‘keep’ what they have not first received from the One knocking away at their obstructing ‘door’ of blinding pride. . . . So, neither can such a pride-blinded 7th, final, SDA church take the complete 3rd Angel’s/Laodicean Message that it has rejected itself to the world.
It’s worse than that. The denomination has inserted itself into the message - the object of the mission, itself. The “Three angels message” of Revelation is a call to Christians “stuck” in wrong denominations, and are called out to join - the “remnant church”. While this is a call for God’s people", it’s a call for Spiritual people of God to leave Babylon, however that is understood. Of course, anywhere spiritual “gifts” are discussed, automatically refer to our own private prophet.
It’s difficult to dig out what exactly is “the Gospel” in the SDA mission.
2 Likes
Exactly.
The question isn’t whether or not Adventism’s “mission” is impossible.
Adventism still has all of its work ahead of itself in trying to define its god-given task and perhaps, in that process, to demonstrate that it is actually on a “mission from god”, as these guys claimed to be:
It’s my understanding that after The Great Debacle of 1844, there was a strong hesitancy among the proto-Adventists to form any sort of new church or religious organization as this was putatively the Babylon which they had supposedly been “called out of”!
Eventually, after years of EGW’s babbling on however, the cult was incorporated and the rest, as they say, is history.
2 Likes
I would suggest that what has been ‘bitten off’ did not come from the right location!!
Scholarship was once an honorable profession. In general, it has declined as the academy seems more interested in weighing itself down in bad ideas and fallacies than elucidating truth.
Your own family may be excepted from this generalization as would other individual scholars be that I know and am even related to as well.
1 Like
Yet another candidate not to be hired in marketing. If this is the mentality for spreading the end-time gospel, then woe be to the world.
Of course not, no one with integrity, myself included, would sully himself marketing the nonsense you wish to market.
2 Likes
One man’s “marketing” is another’s “con artistry” or “selling something one does not own” like the Brooklyn Bridge.
For example, ask to see Christianity’s “goods”, or what one gets for a lifetime of paying 10% of his income to the SDA church, and the salesperson creates a biblical diversion which proves nothing or goes into a “stall” such as “Let’s all sing a hymn!”, rather than admitting that taking possession of eternal life will have to wait until the “mark” dies or Jesus gets back, whichever comes first.
Not a bad gig for a marketing professional who wants to make a career of “pushing product” and “puffery” unless one has what are, in other circles, referred to as “morals” and can successfully push back against what some people call “a conscience”….
3 Likes
Yes, not all of academia has gone to hell in a hand basket. I am happy that you connected your generalization.
“But the details of this mission are nebulous and not uniformly understood or accepted within the church. What does it mean to “reach the world” with the 3AM? We seem to be of two minds regarding what’s expected of us: serve humanity in this world, or preach an identity gospel.”
To the first, "to serve humanity, the church does extremely well , the second, “preach an identity gospel,” that involves the 3AM is another matter as the church is sharply divided regarding the official teachings regarding the first Angels message and who is ministering in the Heavenly temple today, as over the last 42 years according to current official sources, it is not Christ, and the Remnant are so confused they are in danger of "repeating the mistake of the Jews, cf. below.
Isaiah 14:12-14
And
The Battle of the two Clay Kings
As the iron and the clay symbols of Daniel 2:33 and 41 apply in the time of the feet and the toes of the fourth kingdom age, they are foundation symbols that are repeated and expanded upon in Chapters 7 and 8, that apply in our day. Consequently, as we have been advised the “iron” and “clay” symbols represent political and religious kings and their kingdoms, cf. 4BC 1168, it seems prudent to take another look at these symbols, in view of the following comment.
However, there is no general agreement at all on how these symbols should be interpreted. For example interpreters have significant differences of opinion regarding the identity even of such a major symbolic element in Daniel as the four-nation sequence of chapters 2 and 7. ---- If we cannot identify the kingdoms involved, how can we understand the prophetic details given regarding these kingdoms? Shea, Daniel, p. 133, cf. Luke 24:44.
In light of the above, it appears the following counsel remains applicable in our day.
“When the books of Daniel and Revelation are better understood, believers will have an entirely different religious experience.” FLB 345.
“If he dies, he dies ----. Men at the heart of the work have much to learn and much to unlearn.” Miscellaneous Collections, 1888, chapter 163, p. 1371.
As it is generally accepted prophecy is the foreknowledge of history, it is logical history will confirm the correct interpretation and application of the symbols associated with fulfilled prophecy. It is proposed the Historical Grammatical Method of Interpretating prophecy will confirm the correct identification and application of the iron and clay symbols of 2:41, when the repeat and expansion symbols of chapters 7 and 8 are applied in a strict and consistent manner.
Daniel 8:9. Do the “fourth beast king” of 7:23, and the “little horn” of 8:9, represent Rome?
History reveals the “fourth beast king” and his kingdom of 7:17, and the “little horn” king and his kingdom of 8:9, repeat and expand upon the “iron king” and his kingdom of 2:33. History also reveals the “iron,” of 2:41, the “fourth beast king,” of 7:17, and the “little horn” of 8:9,” apply to Caesar Augustus and the Roman Empire. Daniel is quite clear only one kingdom, the Roman Empire is represented by the LH of 8:9.History confirms Rome came from the west and overthrew the northern kingdom of Greece in 168 B.C.; the Pleasant Land in 63 B.C.; and the southern kingdom of Greece in 30 B.C. History also confirms the Roman Empire ruled from 30 B.C. to 1453 A.D., cf. below. The Roman Empire:18 centuries in 19 maps and List of the Roman Emperors.
Daniel 8:11. Did the Papacy take away Christ’s ministry on earth and in heaven?
As the 2,300 years of 8:14 is a split prophecy of 490 years and 1810 years, cf. 9:24, it is proposed Daniel 8:9-14, is divided accordingly, i.e. verses 9-11a apply to the 490 year portion of the 2,300 years, cf. 9:24, and 11b-14 applies to the 1810 year portion of the 2,300 years. In the light of this, the question “how long,” or the better translation, “until when,” the daily of verse 13, applies to both time prophecies. On the one hand the 490 years, (457 B.C. to 34 A.D.) and the “daily” of verse 11a is associated with prophecies fulfilled in 27, 31 and 34 A.D. On the other hand the 1810 years, (34 A.D. to 1844) and the “daily” of verses 12 and 13 is associated with prophecies that were fulfilled in 508, 538, 1798, 1843 and 1844 A.D.
In this view, it is proposed the “daily” of verse 11a applies primarily to the events associated with the “potter’s clay king” Jesus Christ, the “miry clay king’ Herod, and the “iron king” Pontius Pilot and to their actions during the last week of the 70 weeks. Christ’s baptism in 27 A.D. established His everlasting ministry; His crucifixion in 31 A.D. ratified His everlasting covenant, and in 34 A.D. the everlasting gospel went to the whole world. In 11b the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A.D. is the first event associated with the remaining 1810 years. Consequently, as the “daily” of 8:11 applies to the 490 year prophecy, the Papacy did not take away the “daily” of verse 11. Jesus warning regarding the “temple” in Matt 24 was twofold. His answer applied to the imminent destruction of the typical, the “typical temple” of 8:11, as well as to end time attacks that would attempt to destroy the “antitypical temple,” of 8:14.
It is proposed this view is consistent with the prepositional phrase, ûmimmēnû, later in the verse translated, “but by him;” (i.e. “by the 'prince of the host” 4B.C. 842), the “waw” conjunction being read as adversative and the preposition “min” being read as indicating a causal agent. In other words, the Roman little horn attacks "the prince of the host," the “potter’s clay King” of 2:41, but this Roman horn does not take away the “tamid,” the “continues,” it is the opposite. Dan. 8:11 and 9:24 provide a repeat and expansion of 2:33, 41, that reveals the “Potter’s clay King,” Jesus Christ, “established” the “daily,” “the everlasting,” of verse 11. In 27 A.D Jesus baptism announced His “everlasting ministry,” Heb. 7:17: In 31 A.D. Jesus death ratified the “everlasting covenant.” Dan 9:27: and in 34 A.D. His covenant people were commissioned to preach the “everlasting gospel” to the whole world. Matt 24:14.
Paradoxically it was Herod, the “miry clay” king of the Jews, and Pontius Pilot, the ‘iron” king of Rome, who fulfilled the first application of the “iron mixed with miry clay” symbol when they united to crucify Christ. History confirms the events of the last 7 years of the 490 years were fulfilled to the letter. Matt. 23:37-39; John 19:36-37. The sad event of literal Israel’s rejection of the Saviour in their day stands as a warning for spiritual Israel not to repeat their mistake.
Daniel 8:12. Who is the “him” and who is the “it,” and who is in transgression?
“A host was given him against the daily —.” Together with 11:31, this verse applies to a “miry clay” king, who, with the support of armies given to him by “iron” kings, represented by the symbol of “iron mixed with miry clay,” uprooted the “three horn kingdoms” of 7:8; the “potter’s clay” kingdoms of “the saints” 7:8, 21, 25. History confirms France and Rome gave armies to the Papacy to “uproot” these kingdoms whot were in “transgression of the Papacy”. After these kingdoms were uprooted, “the truth was cast to the ground” and the Papacy ruled for 1260 years, 7:25-26.
In the context of 7:8, 8:12 and 11:31, as the three kingdoms did not “continue” they are not represented by the “daily.” The Papacy does not “continue,” cf. Rev.13:3, 17:16. It received a deadly wound at the end of the 1260 years and will be destroyed, 7:25. This leaves the only other possibility, the “it,” the saints, God’s “new covenant” people “continued.” Christ’s “everlasting covenant” people were protected, in the wilderness, Rev. 12:6 and 14, and preached the everlasting Gospel, even unto death, for 1260 years. There is a blessing for those who endured until the 1335 years, as they will possess the Kingdom, Dan. 7:22, Rev. 21:1-7. The Scriptures are sure. The Papacy did not take away the daily, “rule for 2300 years, ascend to heaven, overthrow the heavenly host, succeed the four beasts, or remain the sole power,” cf. below.
“But then, the little horn (8:9) does something that no other kingdom has done: It goes against the Prince of the Host in the heavenly sanctuary.” 2002 Teachers SS Quarterly, p. 41.
“The same picture is used in Daniel 8. The little horn attacks the heavenly host and casts “down some of the host”. (vs 10); it then goes into the sanctuary where he “exalted himself as the Prince of the host” (vs. 11, NKJV). The little horn is attacking heaven and a ministry in heaven, — p. 48. Hence the text says that the horn misappropriated the daily ministry of Christ and then “set over,” or appointed, its own host to control or minister it,” 2002 Teachers SS Quarterly, p. 44; Stefanovic, Wisdom to the wise, p. 306-307, 11; 12 B.C. 394-395.
Daniel 8:13-14. The Question and the Answer?
In verse 13 the question is “how long” or “until when” will the “Sanctuary be cleansed”? “Until when” will the “wheat be separated from the tars,” cf. 2:45? “Until when” will “the wise and foolish virgins be revealed,” Matt. 25: 1-13? “Until when”, the “judgment,” Dan. 7:10, 8:14, Matt, 13:24-30? The answer: “Until 2,300 years,” Dan. 8:14, then the One, the Potter’s clay King, Jesus Christ, will return the second time to take His faithful servants home, Dan. 12:10.
“What is the sanctuary? — And as the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 is fulfilled in this dispensation, the sanctuary to which it refers must be the sanctuary of the new covenant. {GC 417.1}.
In other words**, t** he “true tabernacle” in heaven is the New Covenant Promise of Jesus Christ, who tabernacles, dwells, in His people, and they dwell in Him, John 17:23. God, through Jesus dwelling in and with His people, will be the centre of worship for eternity. But Satan, the arch deceiver also “sits in the temple of God,” 2 Thess. 2:4. As this temple is the one and the same temple, Rev. 21:22, the “seed,” of humanity, have a choice to make as “no one can serve two masters,” Matt. 6:24. Just as the Jews, in the time of the feet, who rejected the message of John crucified Christ, cf. EW 258-270, those who reject the “three angel’s messages,” the messages of John in the time of the toes, “crucify Christ afresh,” (ST 19/02/1902),
The “potters clay” sons of men, “the seed of royalty,” זֶרַע, Strong’s H2232 Dan. 1:3, are different to the “miry clay” sons of men**,** the “seed of humanity,” זְרַע, H 223 2:43, cf. Matt. 5:18, 2 Tim. 3:14-17. The judgment, Dan. 7:10, 8:14, Matt. 13:24-30, is not about being good enough, for we can never be; it is about whose “seed” we are. The judgment vindicates God. It reveals, to the unfallen worlds, the love and justice of God in redeeming this fallen world. EW, 39, 40.
Ranald McLeish Email. ranald.mcleish@hotmail.com
.
This topic was automatically closed after 14 days. New replies are no longer allowed.