Is the Church Already Unified on the Issue of Women’s Ordination?


(reliquum) #241

We still have no idea what study was conducted by who in that “newspaper article”.
We do know you made sweeping generalizations that Chudleigh is wrong.
We do know you did serious google research to profer your “proof” in less than two hours.

It is fair to ask YOU why the unknown old source you use trumps Chudleighs respected work,
implication being that you are qualified to judge his scholarly research. I’m uncertain, but i suspect he spent more than just a few minutes, and far broader scope of research than what you have boasted about.

Despite plenty of opportunity to clarify this, you have not done so, resorting instead to inanity of personal attack.


(Kim Green) #242

"The validity of the article has nothing to do with my identity, credentials or authority."

Then why not tell us something about yourself?


#243

Tim,

I have never said that I wanted to lead (in the sense of lording over) women. In fact, I already said what I meant by headship.

For me to be the head means to the servant. This is what Jesus demonstrated.


#244

It is difficult to say. Do you have any hint in her writings showing that it is the case?

Also, it would be interesting to compare the notion of headship in her time to the biblical concept and also to the notion of headship we have today. It would not be surprising to me if we don’t speak about the same thing, that is, the Bible saying something and each of us understanding something altogether different.


#245

You already know that I am French… :slightly_smiling_face:


(Kade Wilkinson) #246

Any new doctrine. I’m not thinking of any particular issue, just trying to make sense of something I’ve wondered about. Roman Catholics have a fairly developed (if faulty from an Orthodox perspective) view of the development of doctrine, most famously expounded by Newman. SDA doctrine has also changed or developed significantly even in the past 20 years, but there doesn’t seem to be any cohesive view on development of doctrine, nor any pattern to who holds to various positions on development of doctrine. When I was SDA, I held to the opinion that development of doctrine was illegitimate, but others with similar views on various issues held that development of doctrine was necessary, desirable, and inevitable.


(Kim Green) #247

These conversations/arguments always come down to what someone can “deduce/interpret” what the Bible/EGW says. The real truth is that it comes down to what each individual decides that it means to them…and sometimes what the Holy Spirit enlightens them with.


(Kim Green) #248

I don’t respect that you “Brethren” hide behind facades. Your comment isn’t “cute” but rather dismissive…as it is meant to be.


(Kim Green) #249

"SDA doctrine has also changed or developed significantly even in the past 20 years, but there doesn’t seem to be any cohesive view on development of doctrine, nor any pattern to who holds to various positions on development of doctrine."

Why do think this is so?


#250

It is true that there is always a part of interpretation but when we say something we have to make an effort to be as concrete as possible, that is, if we say something involving EGW, we should be able to show something from her writings; if we say something about a biblical doctrine, we should be able to show at least a Bible text to support our claim.

Failing to do that makes us turn in circle.

You are entitled to your opinions. If you think my comment is dismissive, well, you would not feel that way if you were less probing.


(Kim Green) #251

"It is true that there is always a part of interpretation but when we say something we have to make an effort to be as concrete as possible, that is, if we say something involving EGW, we should be able to show something from her writings; if we say something about a biblical doctrine, we should be able to show at least a Bible text to support our claim."

I have been on this forum for years and providing “proof” never has changed any commenter’s mind. My statement still stands.

"less probing"

What a sorry “excuse” you are making for me being correct.


#252

Like they say, you can bring a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.


(Kim Green) #253

Lol…proof positive. :laughing:

Some come here to learn, some come for debate…and others come to proselytize their own SDA variant beliefs (Headship). It’s easy to figure out who is which one. Not all come to “drink”. :wink:


(Heather) #254

Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
Judges 4:4 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jdg.4.4.KJV
John 13:34-35. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 13:34 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.13.34.KJV


(Kim Green) #255

Spot on, Heather…and you even used the “correct” bible version. :nerd_face:

They can’t claim there was never a female judge. However…I am waiting for one of the Headship Brethren to claim that Deborah was an anomaly, just like EGW. :smile:


(Tim Teichman) #256

Well, you’ve posted so many times I don’t know the post you refer to when you write, “I already said what I meant by headship.” Please restate your position or provide a link to your statement.

That doesn’t make any sense to me. In any case, how does being the servant leader (compared to some other kind of leader) relate in any way to WO, the topic at hand?


And I also would like to know who you are, as others have asked.


(Tim Teichman) #257

Good analysis! It does seem like change is rather a rudderless ship within the SDA church. I expect that this lack of grounding principles - or even an overt admission from the church that it is (constantly) changing - contributes to the conflicts on WO and other issues.


(Tim Teichman) #258

But he’s French. Isn’t that enough? :slight_smile:


(Tim Teichman) #259

It seems you’re describing yourself as much as anyone else here.

But you are correct. You likely won’t ever convince anyone here of your position if it entails headship in any form - especially as you continue to hide your identity.


(Kade Wilkinson) #260

I don’t know. I think it’s an intriguing puzzle, but I have yet to come up with an explanatory theory.