Lessons from Blockbuster


(George Tichy) #41

It looks like you too are fed up with those comments posted by @gideonjrn, uh?


#42

HUH??

U need to re-read my post.
I have no problem with AUTHENTIC Christianity, Jesus or bible. The problem is with organized churchianity and pagan contaminated Christianity that is a threat to salvation. Also, even though SDA have not the same level of antinomianism as 99% of Christianity, doctrinal corrupting,evangelical influences are easily detected by those who have spiritual perception.


#43

George, thanks for keeping me in the loop.

Please, let me know when I have reached the position of being the official Spectrum troll.


(Steve Mga) #44

It USED to be, way back when,
That Adventism PRIDED ITSELF that it was begun by 20 and 30 years olds.
James White [single] escorted Ellen Harmon around on horse and wagon-buggy
to her various speaking engagements. James would many times lead the singing.

How old was Ed Sutherland when he moved Battle Creek College to Berrien Springs
in railroad cars and set up school in the Court House? Fascinating short story.
Both he and Percy Magan were Revolutionaries. Close buddies in “crime”.


(Kim Green) #45

Yep! Too much angst wrapped up in those comments that go nowhere…mean nothing. It would be better to work them out with a mental health professional. But of course, it is OTHERS that have the problem…that don’t understand, etc. I suppose that these types of forums attract “Crusader-Complainers”.


(Kim Green) #46

After my comment…do you need to ask?


(Kim Green) #47

And, of course…you are “gifted” with “spiritual perception”. :rofl:


(George Tichy) #48

Past due…
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#49

That would be all good and fine if you are not saying this by sitting in the middle of train crossing with an oncoming train in sight. At some point saying things like “If God is on my side, he’ll stop that train” may be downright blasphemy. :wink:


(Alnie Robert) #50

If practice is more important than doctrine, why then did Jesus teach “be ye not deceived”?


#51

Not really sure why you compare the suggestions in the article to using foul language?

It’s more to do with adjusting management strategies than it is about altering any core beliefs. What ends up happening is that previous generation of church leadership ends up smuggling these strategies, and attaching them to some “worldly ways of doing things”… while all along they are using credit cards, having lawyers on retainers, managing a site and social media accounts, and utilize corporate lingo to describe church positions… like “marketing director”. If they are not “marketing” (marketing = selling) anything, then why would they need “marketing director” :)?

I know it’s a nominal title that describing “wordly equivalent”, but let’s get real here. There’s nothing wrong with shifting to certain cultural concepts in order to facilitate the execution of the overarching mission.

The larger issue outlines in the article is that the typical view by the previous generation is that the more “irrationally conservative” one is, the more “Godly” one is perceived, and that’s simply unfortunate, because we need both… we need a balance between innovators who will not only align the church with the culture for adequate and most efficient means of communicating the message, but we also need innovators who would lead the culture on certain issues.

But it’s unlikely to happen. What is likely to happen is what is already happening. The leadership elders canonized their preferences, and they stick to them as a standard, while talented young people begin to disappear, whispering “Who is John Galt”, or some SDA version of that.

I can personally confirm that we’ve lost a score of young people to this attitude of “surrender your tithe” followed by “we’ll consider and forget about your suggestions”.


(James Peterson) #52

That is why I considered the upheaval wrought by the Ford challenge in 1980 and showed that in spite of the exodus back then of MOTIVATED, QUALIFIED AND ABLE personnel, pastors no less, the denomination prospered.

  1. In 1980, in the throes of the Desmond Ford challenge, membership was 3.5M. When the dust had settled, and in spite of a mass exodus of 180 pastors over the ensuing 8 years, membership grew spectacularly. Nearly 40 years later, today it stands at just about 21M. That is a 500% increase, each year on average: +10%.

  2. In 1980, tithes received by the denomination amounted to about 400M; whereas as recently as 2016, it stood at over 2 billion US dollars, showing a similar rate of increase as membership.

THE CHURCH IS NOT A BLOCKBUSTER.


I used the analogy of proud parents of an upstanding child to illustrate the denomination’s position against perceived challenges to its vision of where the church should go. SDA obviously prize their unique contribution to the Christian faith, and have held strong against the fads that sweep over the land from time to time. They have weathered many a storm, so much so that in 2012, Forbes described the denomination as “the fastest growing church” in America. See also USA Today.

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(Kim Green) #53

The Mormons have overtaken the SDA’s now…and far into the future as the “fastest growing”:

http://www1.cbn.com/churchandministry/mormons-are-fastest-growing-religion


(James Peterson) #54

Perhaps you might like to visit the Mormon equivalent of Spectrum, consider your statement of “fastest growing” and think of the implication: that “fastest growing” denominations are “conservative” traditionalists who defy the tide of an increasingly vocal “liberal” world.

In reality then, THE CHURCH IS NOT A BLOCKBUSTER.

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(Kim Green) #55

James, it was not MY statement…but a fact. LDS “grow” a lot of their own members and are exceedingly missionary-oriented which are two of the largest reasons that they are the “fastest growing”. Why would visiting the LDS “equivalent” mean anything?


#56

I don’t think that either I or the author would disagree that the denomination grew. But most of that 80-2018 growth happened in the earlier years where the “same ol methods” worked quite well. In recent years the leadership finally realized that spending 15-20k-50k on prophesy seminars that only members end up going to is not the best strategy, among some things. But that happened after monstrous waste of resources.

So yes, you are right, the church have grown and prospered with a generation of retierees who are loyal with cutting a check every month.

But the whole point of the article is that present generation of leaders have constructed the church around their preferences, which are the fads your are talking about, but these are now “canonized fads”.

So your point that “we’ve had people leaving in the past” is not taking into account that these people left because of religious disagreement. People who are leaving now, are leaving because of the procedural disagreement. And these are the people who are innovators who can’t stand the frustration of contributing their time and resources to a church organization which largely has been hijacked by the “old-timer cronies” who largely see the younger generation as “corrupt and irresponsible”.

And while I value tremendously the wisdom of previous generation, their inability to see beyond their canonized preferences will create tremendous problems for church down the road, and we already beginning to see the results now.


(James Peterson) #57

Time will tell. In the mean time, Paul encourages us to pray for the General Conference that Ted Wilson et al prove themselves to be true and successful. 1 Tim. 2:1-3

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(reliquum) #58

Indeeed, this elusive authenticity logically must be perfecting ones eptness at pointing out everyone elses ineptnesses. You know, just like Jesus did…


(James Wilson) #59

I see this differently, we should market our product in a manner that is proportionate to the value proposition we offer. Look how much time an effort people put into marketing things of questionable value. How can we look God in the eye if we do a shoddy job and fail. It is not because our product is faulty that we are losing our young people. It’s not because they are insufficiently spiritual either.
Look at how well the church in apostolic times met the needs of it’s constituents. This resulted in thousands of converts in a single location.
The spiritual, social, emotional and financial needs of the young are more stark and pressing than they were fifty years ago. If the local churches were structured to encourage members to bear each other’s burdens without neglecting the needs of the larger church body, we would achieve the results pioneered by the apostles. They addressed the needs of their times in the most appropriate manner and adjusted their approach as their needs evolved.


#60

Yeah like He did. Review the 4 gospels to see who and what Jesus criticized.