Liberation and Reconciliation

@elmer_cupino
Elmer.
When children steal something from a store, sooner or later they will hint the adults around them by saying something related to the fact. It is kind of a disguised (not intended but actually intended…) confession.
Why am I saying this?.. :thinking: :thinking:
@cincerity @harrpa

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“Why do birds suddenly appear…every time you are near?” :rofl:

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Hi James,
Yes I believe a few nuances you gave are completely missing my point.

I do not believe that anything that interferes with unfettered "free enterprise capitalism " is Non Christian. I have repeatedly said on this sight there is no system that perfectly represents God’s system on earth. There is no parallel to be found to God’ Covenant to Israel on earth, or will it be. I have said that when we talk of Marx, Facism, various degrees of socialism and “Free Market Capitalism”/limited government, we are discussing political-social- economic theory and not “thus sayeth the Lord” or WWJD

As to Neuhaus and the quote provided above. John Neuhaus was quoting Wallis’ Damascus road document in “Ambushed on the way to Damascus”, First Things (April 1990) ;66. Under Public square, the article on the “Feminist Faith” comments…sub title.


I am/was simply trying to give a historical background of Wallis’s views as relates to politics. You are certainly free to place your on interpretation on the historical Wallis. Neuhaus and Pinnock bear witness to his expressed views. You are also in my world free to vote as you wish. I won’t by association call you un-Christian.
In addition, Wallis indeed does practice the politics of division with his “white priviledge” views. it was the foundation of Phil’s suggesting I was a white nationalist and thus held unchristian views. Who is judging who?
This country has established over the years a civil “safety net” for the less fortunate. It wasn’t based on WWJD but a civil concern for the less fortunate unable to provide for themselves. We have now reached a point where some choose to make a paradigm leap.

I was also attempting to show how the German church as well as the people and RCC under Mussolini in Italy had difficulty in recognizing and countering the two dictators. I believe it was their “common sharing” and implementing of political social ideas. I believe Bonhoeffer pointed it out when appraising the German church and those that left the Barmen agreement.

So James, I am simply trying to point out the dangers of the “churches political-social involvement” with the state. i.e At first churches relished the government resources for education. Now the mission of many Church institutions are skewed and complicit with the government to continue funding. Mission is blurred and compromised…real time today!

Indeed their was a Judeo- Christian moral input to this country’s laws from it’s founding. The desire of a moral basis for a self governing principle of sustainability was criticized by Liberty mag as simply wanting a theocracy. I wonder if Liberty is having any input towards the new social voices? Or, is their historic bias against conservative Christians and Sunday laws a reason for a pass to “Progressive Christianity input in the new social era?”

So, I continue to encourage people to vote their conscience. But, do it with open eyes of the various input into the new paradigm. Could people, as in Germany, simply naively expect statist governments to do the “right thing”? As Samuel told the people, you want a king and you want to be like the other nations…but here is what will happen.

As to poor as the center-point focus. God did indeed make provision/consider the poor but it was not the center point of the theocracy. Sabbatical laws freed from debt and servitude. and were to keep allocated land within their respective tribes that God had given them. Nothing was related to taxing earned income.
“‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly. Lev.19:15.

Perhaps we can start here with fewer rabbit trails and more concise answers.

Pat
@phil
@deuce710

[quote=“1QOL, post:246, topic:18727”]

You seem to suggest that ANYTHING that interferes with unfettered capitalism, or free enterprise, is evil and unchristian. Or am I completely misunderstanding where you are coming from?

Hi James,
Yes I believe a few nuances you gave are completely missing my point.

I do not believe that anything that interferes with unfettered "free enterprise capitalism " is Non Christian. I have repeatedly said on this sight there is no system that perfectly represents God’s system on earth. There is no parallel to be found to God’ Covenant to Israel on earth, or will it be. I have said that when we talk of Marx, Facism, various degrees of socialism and “Free Market Capitalism”/limited government, we are discussing political-social- economic theory and not “thus sayeth the Lord” or WWJD

As to Neuhaus and the quote provided above. John Neuhaus was quoting Wallis’ Damascus road document in “Ambushed on the way to Damascus”, First Things (April 1990) ;66. Under Public square, the article on the “Feminist Faith” comments…sub title.

First Things

The Feminist Faith | Richard John Neuhaus

Elizabeth Achtemeier, professor of Bible at Union Theological Seminary, Virginia, has flatly . . . .

I am/was simply trying to give a historical background of Wallis’s views as relates to politics. You are certainly free to place your on interpretation on the historical Wallis. Neuhaus and Pinnock bear witness to his expressed views. You are also in my world free to vote as you wish. I won’t by association call you un-Christian.
In addition, Wallis indeed does practice the politics of division with his “white priviledge” views. it was the foundation of Phil’s suggesting I was a white nationalist and thus held unchristian views. Who is judging who?
This country has established over the years a civil “safety net” for the less fortunate. Roughly, Federal & other programs and 1 Trillion a year. It wasn’t based primarily on WWJD but a civil concern for the less fortunate unable to provide for themselves. We have now reached a point where some choose to make a paradigm leap.

I was also attempting to show how the German church as well as the people and RCC under Mussolini in Italy had difficulty in recognizing and countering the two dictators. I believe it was their “common sharing” and implementing of political social ideas. I believe Bonhoeffer pointed it out when appraising the German church and those that left the Barmen agreement.

So James, I am simply trying to point out the dangers of the “churches political-social involvement” with the state. i.e At first churches relished the government resources for education. Now the mission of many Church institutions are skewed and complicit with the government to continue funding. Mission is blurred and compromised…real time today!

Indeed their was a Judeo- Christian moral input to this country’s laws from it’s founding. The desire of a moral basis for a self governing principle of sustainability was criticized by Liberty mag as simply wanting a theocracy. I wonder if Liberty is having any input towards the new social voices? Or, is their historic bias against conservative Christians and Sunday laws a reason for a pass to “Progressive Christianity input in the new social era?”

So, I continue to encourage people to vote their conscience. But, do it with open eyes of the various input into the new paradigm. Could people, as in Germany, simply naively expect statist governments to do the “right thing”? As Samuel told the people, you want a king and you want to be like the other nations…but here is what will happen.

As to poor as the center-point focus. God did indeed make provision/consider the poor but it was not the center point of the theocracy. Sabbatical laws freed from debt and servitude. and were to keep allocated land within their respective tribes that God had given them. Nothing was related to taxing earned income.
“‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly. Lev.19:15.

Perhaps we can start here with fewer rabbit trails and more concise answers.

Pat
@phil
@deuce710

vandiemanjeremy

I believe Ramik, as an outsider was paid to do his job in favour of White Estate, while Veltman though paid for the work, as an insider, he could not come out openly. However, he left enough room (clues) for us to conclude that she palgiarised. He did say the she had always denied copying though the evidence proved otherwise.

I totally disagree with you on this assumption. Her unique insights form the life of Christ, his disciples, his enemies, those who nailed him, and of the unseen spiritual world, I found in the works of others in my research of the Desire of Ages. I give you a proof of my statement, form the DA, Ch. 64, pp. 578, 579. Tell me whether it was inspired:

Ellen White (1827-1915): “As the procession is about to descend the Mount of Olives, it is intercepted by the rulers. They inquire the cause of the tumultuous rejoicing. As they question, “Who is this?” the disciples, filled with the spirit of inspiration , answer this question. In eloquent strains they repeat the prophecies concerning Christ: Adam will tell you, It is the seed of the woman that shall bruise the serpent’s head. Ask Abraham , he will tell you, It is “Melchizedek King of Salem,” King of Peace. Genesis 14:18. Jacob will tell you, He is Shiloh of the tribe of Judah. Isaiah will tell you, “Immanuel,” “Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 7:14; 9:6. Jeremiah will tell you, The Branch of David, “the Lord our Righteousness.” Jeremiah 23:6. Daniel will tell you, He is the Messiah. Hosea will tell you, He is “the Lord God of hosts; the Lord is His memorial.” Hosea 12:5. John the Baptist will tell you, He is “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. The great Jehovah has proclaimed from His throne, “This is My beloved Son.” Matthew 3:17. We, His disciples , declare, This is Jesus, the Messiah, the Prince of life, the Redeemer of the world. And the prince of the powers of darkness acknowledges Him, saying, “I know Thee who Thou art, the Holy One of God.” Mark 1:24” (DA, pp. 578, 579, 1940).

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Original source,Joseph Hall (1574-1656): “The attending disciples could not be to seek for an answer. Which of the prophets have not put it into their mouths? Who is this? Ask Moses and he shall tell you, The Seed of the Woman that shall break the Serpents head. Ask your father Jacob , and he shall tell you, The Shiloh of the Tribe of Judah. Ask David , and he shall tell you, The King of glory. Ask Isaiah , he shall tell you, Immanuel, Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The prince of Peace. Ask Jeremiah , and he shall tell you, The Righteous Branch. Ask Daniel , he shall tell you, The Messiah. Ask John the Baptist , he shall tell you, The Lamb of God. If you ask the God of the Prophets, he hath told you, This is my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Yea, if all these be too good for you to consult with, the devils themselves have been forced to say, I know who thou art, even that Holy One of God. On no side hath Christ left himself without a testimony; and accordingly, the multitude have their answer ready, This is Jesus, the Prophet of Nazareth in Galilee” (Contemplations upon the Remarkable Passages in the Life of the Holy Jesus, p. 407, 1680).
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The only difference between the two authors is that Ellen White starts with Adam whereas Joseph Hall with Moses, because he was a prophet. Can any one support this from the Gospels?

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No, they can’t. The NT writers seemed to write as they did because they had experienced and encountered Christ, and the power of the Spirit. They went back and read the OT with totally new eyes, seeing Jesus of Nazareth as the climax and goal of the entire OT narrative and prophecies of Israel’s story. That the OT figures anticipated a Messiah/liberator to come is there. There are enough statements to support such in both testaments. That they would have precisely anticipated Jesus of Nazareth, a crucified and risen Messiah, is another matter.

Thanks…

Frank

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“On the day that you were born the angels got together
And decided to create a dream come true”
The Carpenter’s.
That took me a bit down memory lane. LOL
You are a lot of fun to read, Kim.

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Thank-you very much. :grin:

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You are welcome.:grinning:

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Thank you so much for those important exhibits!

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Thank you very much. They are from my research files.

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