Loma Linda University Church Discusses the GC’s Compliance Document


Yep, I am not a professional.
Reminds me what a competent preacher mentioned in a sermon to his audience.

“I’m a travelling salesman.
You’re a satisfied customer.
I get paid to be good
You’re good for nuthin.”

(George Tichy) #42

Yes Elmer, it is too much for him (@gideonjrn). His obsession with diminishing any preacher/teacher is just :astonished: astonishing. Will he ever come up with one single positive about anyone? I doubt.


Probably not. Didn’t Pollyanna die already?

(Jeffrey Kent) #44

No…if she had a penis–the almighty sacred organ that imparts genuine leadership ability–she’d be treated better.

(George Tichy) #45

We already knew that!.. But thanks for acknowledging… :wink:


Naaa. I know what Jer 17:9 & Rom 8:7 say…

(Patrick Travis) #47

Thanks Steve,
But…it came from a “need” to keep the family name in inheritance. It still shows how specific situations and needs can change what appears written “In stone.”
Cultural things with no real binding moral import can be changed. That, I suggest is what ordaining women and pastoral ministry is about.

(Elmer Cupino) #48

Self-disclosure is a good sign. We will have to give @gideonjrn credit for resorting to adaptive coping skills. It’s a beginning and a hopeful sign.

(George Tichy) #49

Or, if those who mistreat her had a little bit of civility, decency, and Christian spirit. This would do it. But they have just NONE of those at all.

(George Tichy) #50

Don’t get excited Elmer. This may be just “it.”

(Steve Mga) #51

George –

Our problem is WE ARE GOOD FOR FREE!
Maybe we need to start putting our TIP BASKET out.
So WE can begin getting PAID to be good.

(Patrick Travis) #52

The potential danger in this is that it becomes like #MeToo. It started with some needful principles but in the eyes of some it became all things men bad!
Roger Nicole who was for ordaining women under the stipulation they believed in creation and the creation order. Women came from man and were a helpmate not to “rule over.” Now likewise for men “not ruling in the pejorative sense” but the man remains the head.
The necessity of this realization with the contemporary #Me Too does relate to women who become hostile to all things men. Satan always works to destroy and corrupt the created order.
I appreciate the deceased egalitarian Nicole’s insight.

(Phillip Brantley) #53

Ted Wilson and his like-minded colleagues at the GC can post a comment on this website or submit an essay. But notice that they have never done so. I have been told that comments on Wilson’s Facebook page that express disagreement are deleted and the commentators are banned. Courteous comments expressing disagreement that are made on the Adventist Review website are routinely censored and deleted.

I have heard Ted Wilson preach on various occasions in Berrien Springs. Those sermons are unremarkable. He speaks and writes in banalities and clichés. He is not a theologian. Asking him to preach in Loma Linda or Berrien Springs is like asking him to climb the gym rope all the way to the ceiling. How do you think he must feel watching people laugh at him, raise their eyebrows, and roll their eyes when he is talking? For him to even set foot in these scholarly communities is a tremendous act of bravery on his part.

Do you really think that he could offer a cogent explanation that passes the laugh test for his belief that the immanent Trinity is hierarchically ordered and that the Son is eternally subordinate to the Father? Do you think Mark Finley or anyone else at the GC could navigate this terrain? I would love for anyone at the GC to be invited to give a sermon on the Trinity that would include a discussion of Neo-subordinationism, but to accept such an invitation when you really don’t know what you are talking about is perilous. In many conversations, there is what we can gently describe as the inept sparring partner. No one wants to be the inept sparring partner. Accordingly, I do not foresee that GC personnel will become active participants in conversation that you rightly encourage.

(Ian m fraser) #54

Contrary to Jan Paulien, individuals are targeted in the terms of reference #2.

Develop and recommend to the General Conference Executive Committee (GCC) Guidelines that explicitly describe the conduct and behavior of denominational employees as well as any individuals representing the Church germane to the committee of assignment.


The quieter one of the Wieland and Short team, Donald Karr Short, once wrote a manuscript around 1957 that he finally published about 30 years later. In Then Shall the Sanctuary Be Cleansed he described the final ‘unknown’ sin to be realized, confessed and erased from God’s ‘church’, ‘people’, ‘friends’ . . .
(whatever description doesn’t offend) as being the desire or will to kill or murder God. Since Jesus described even hate as murder, and that one cannot truly love God if one hates a fellow created being, then misogyny in any form or degree is equivalent to ‘misotheos’, and ultimately spreads to the ‘will to kill God’.

In the Biblical account Adam and Eve first expressed this narcissistic hatred of any ‘other’ in preference for ‘self’ when God simply asked what they had done and Adam blamed God and Eve instead of just answering the question straight, and Eve blamed the ‘serpent’, which was to blame God for making it in the first place. So, I believe that if Donald Short was still alive to see the way ‘Eve’ is still blamed and hated by ‘Adam’ in the SDA church, he would want to include male misogyny in the short list of last ‘hidden’ sins, at least.

As far as I know actual ‘serpents’ are not yet up for ordination in the SDA church, although their anti-type is always willing and ready to be ordained. . . which brings up an interesting question:

If female humans are somehow ‘sub-human’, and yet they are baptized and given SDA membership . . . then why not ‘sub-human’ snakes, cats and dogs ? So, the question demands answers, again, as to what it means to be ‘found in Christ’, and to have ‘Christ in you’. SDAs have already tried the ‘panentheism’ route, and it was called the ‘Alpha of Apostasy’. Perhaps the other extreme now being enjoyed by the SDA GC in denying women the status of ‘fully-human’ is restricting Christ to ‘part-entheism’, restricting His Spirit from occupying all – ‘pan-’-- of His intended ‘Living Temples’, and is a part of the ‘Omega of Apostasy’.



I hope you don’t misunderstand me.

When I try to be concise, I usually regret it and end up re-writing a volume equivalent in size to ‘War and Peace’, anyway ! :sunglasses: My ‘concise’ intent was to excite imaginations to consider what it might look like in the ‘real world’ to give the anti-‘WO’ leaders the full extent of just what they think they want. If they are allowed to start rolling their anti-‘WO’ ‘snowball’ down the ‘slope’, it may bury them in their own ‘avalanche’.

(Kim Green) #57

"The church salt has changed to sugar and cocaine."

Just curious…when did this occur in your opinion?

(Kim Green) #58

I believe that this maybe at best…the Pot calling the Kettle black. :wink:

(Kim Green) #59

…and that would be…and how does it apply to the conversation??

(Kim Green) #60

Are there treatments for “Overactive Ego”? :rofl: