thx, tim…i’ll do that…
"why should we care what church leaders think…so many of them have turned out to be pedophiles and ephebophiles…"
Then you will have to stop listening to SDA church leaders as well…Adventism has had its fair share of child abuse, etc. No church group has gone without their pedophiles.
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i agree…people can’t cede to adventist or any leaders the responsibility for what they think and believe…
Indeed this is someone who understands the nexus of Christianity. Good show, Jeremy!
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Folks who take responsibility for what they believe into their own hands do not complain against EGW or other imperfect people. Not taking charge exposes the complainers as they moan that they got tired of this and that and I had to finally leave because this and that. I have more complaints than the sum of all the people who told me their sob stories and I am still an Adventist. I see problems in every stream of thought but why would I leave something so glorious as the Adventist message? “My needs are not being met!” As George Carlin once said, “Lose some of your needs!!” Millennial ME-MEs need to be serviced.
I am not talking about anyone in particular, on this forum. But this needs to be said as a general realization about taking responsibility for what we believe.
Peace to all !!
Regards…
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"Folks who take responsibility for what they believe into their own hands do not complain against EGW or other imperfect people. Not taking charge exposes the complainers as they moan that they got tired of this and that and I had to finally leave because this and that. I have more complaints than the sum of all the people who told me their sob stories and I am still an Adventist. I see problems in every stream of thought but why would I leave something so glorious as the Adventist message? “My needs are not being met!” As George Carlin once said, “Lose some of your needs!!” Millennial ME-MEs need to be serviced."
This is an nice SDA “apologist” viewpoint…so glad that you have worked out all the particulars for everyone. 
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Yea! Right! It’s not the church’s fault that the young generation is leaving and the church is only growing in less-educated areas of the world. It’s everyone else’s fault because they won’t accept the message. Whiners.
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i really think now that leaving the church is the biggest cop-out…it’s such an admission that there was never any personal responsibility taken for fixing whatever problems were seen…as if jesus didn’t see that there was a judas in his church, and didn’t try to do something about it…
the way i see it now is that dealing with problems in the church are part of how god makes us better and stronger people…if all we deal with is smooth sailing, how are we ever going to advance…how are we ever going to develop what we don’t already have…
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We sort of chuckle about this, but very seriously the insistence on a literal reading of the bible stories makes the Christian message unbelievable to most everyone, and is quite indefensible.
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No, I don’t think so. I don’t think I wrote anything that is new to most anyone.
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Ah I see, Okay…
jeremy…are all the “problems” people have with the church “fixable”?
"I don’t think I wrote anything that is new to most anyone."
Absolutely. I think the issue is whether or not others accept this.
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i would say probably not…after-all, judas wasn’t fixable…i think there are some things, especially with certain personalities, that are a permanent drag…
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So…it is all about personality?
i would say at least half of the typical problems in a church are personality based…what do you think…
I think that there are personalities that are not well suited for organizations…or do not mix well with other people. However, people also leave churches for many other reasons…some of which have nothing to do with “personality” clashes, etc. Some churches are “toxic” for some individuals and so leaving is a good idea for them.
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Thanks for taking the time to expound on what you believe and understand. I have lots of questions but will put it aside and let’s just say both of us believe that God created the entire universe. No need for IBMTE.
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Right thinking and right believing is not the focus in many of Christ’s teachings. Right being and right doing seem to be more highly prized. Put another way: Orthopraxy is more important than orthodoxy. One of my favorite Bible stories is the story of Rahab, who hid the two spies. It may be one of the first from the genre of “prostitute with the heart of gold” stories. She was later spared for what she did and for who she was, for her act of sympathy and kindness, and not because she had an accepted belief system.
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Absolutely! And why would a self respecting child of God remain immersed in a soul-sucking toxicity? They wouldn’t.
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