Massive Oversight Committee System Set Up at the General Conference

Your equivocation does not stand. I am not leaving the Adventist church truth, come hell or high waters.

Is this not a pejorative, something you wrongly imputed on me earlier? At the very least be consistent to earn the respect of your own friends.

I have nothing against you. My “petard” is a careful understanding of the truth, which seems to annoy Evangelicals/Gracers like poison ivy in the undies.

Can we at least agree not the bastardize the words of God, so peace could reign, if but for a moment?

I quote the words of God and you guys present me as someone trying to evangelize and preach. I am not preaching to you. I am defending my sound beliefs and God’s words are better than mine. If you do not figure that out, we will be dancing this dance for a long time. I will never stop defending the words of God. The Savior did that earnestly. Find a way around that, if you can.

Calm down Johnny, I do not want to see you in anguish.

Peace, Brother…

They made an error, it’s not 3.8 billion years, it’s actually 3.23 billion exact…

When I read those things I am so glad again that I am an Agnostic… I can say that it was long time ago… but I really don’t know. :wink:

By the way, the sun was born… 6.666 billion years ago, and the earth only 1,844 billion years ago… :laughing:


There is a lot more that goes on inside NASA and in the astrophysics world than what you can find on Google, George.

#1 There are two gases which disappear after the Solar Flash or the birth of fusion. I forget the name of the 1st gas, (I will look it up in my notes from decades ago) it takes 6500 years to dissipate and from the corona of the sun and the second it lithium, which takes about 10,000 years to dissipate. The first gas is nearly depleted and lithium is more than half gone. This became a serious puzzle for astrophysicists. The trouble is that they looked at the earth as an indelible companion of the sun until 6 months ago and the age of the sun has been gauged by what has been discovered on planet earth. When the far infra-red telescope, launched recently, discovered that planets between suns are exceedingly numerous, floating in space and meandering between suns. Suddenly, the picture is different. Our planet was known for a while already not to be consistent with the planets of this solar system. It is very possible that it was blown off from another sun billions of years ago, in one way or another. Then it arrived into this solar system. So, with this new discovery, it will take some time for the pros to reform the theory of where the earth came from and when.

#2 Another study 20+ years ago which involves the deep vibration of the sun itself suggests that we have a very young sun. That debate was furiously fought on both sides. The frequency on its own suggests without a doubt that the fused helium core is nowhere near what is needed for a sun born 6 billion years ago. But too many times researchers have their mind set that the sun must be old, so they violate their own discoveries and make up rationalizations to make things work out as they wish to see them. We call those Band-Aid theories. And that is nothing new. It has been going on for years. Ether, Steady State Universe… the list goes on and on.

Give it some time and that will come to light as well. But for our world we need the belief that the sun is super old, just like the Darwinian beliefs that we come from monkeys. A new satellite has been sent to orbit the sun and collect data at a very close distance from the sun, recently. Give them time to collect the data and report it once they realize their former Band-Aid theories need to go. This satellite study is very exciting for all cosmologists and the world of astrophysics.

Patience “Mon Capitain!” The truth will come up soon enough.

Please share your opinion on why is the Adventist message"so glorious."

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You forgot to add, “so glorious”.


It seems that we (the spectrumites) are a missionary field. But a poor one. We get the missionaries, one after another… but we never get any compensation money as any missionary field should. :wink:

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  1. Would you share what the “Adventist church truth” is?
  2. How would you tell it someone you meet it the subway?

Thanks Dennis for the vaulable info.
I was not searching anything about it on Google. I hope you didn’t miss the meaning of the numbers I used in my prior post…
:wink: :innocent:

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The Cleansing of the Sanctuary is not the Atonement Day Ceremony. But it does not really matter that our pioneers were mistaken. Starting with Hiram Edson they began to preach “Christ in His Sanctuary”. The Sanctuary was not polluted with the sins of believers which were forgiven. It was polluted by Rome which fell apart and reformed into a religious empire. The first thing they did was to take away the core doctrine of how Christians are supposed to have their sins forgiven. They accomplished that with their famous Sacrament of Reconciliation which demanded Christians to come to priests and ask “Father forgive me, for I have sinned”. The Savior said, “Call no man Father, for one is your Father”. That pollution was removed by the Adventist Movement. You can cite what you will, from the writings of other Christian churches, but the reality is that Protestants introduced Intercessory Prayer when they rejected Rome’s religion. That made them nothing different from the Roman church teachings. That still resolves to intercession outside of the Savior and I can cite many, many doctrinal references of that practice throughout Protestantism.

Adventists introduced the idea of the Savior still in His Sanctuary in heaven interceding on Man’s behalf. It is the “one and only” church which hit the target of “Then shall the Sanctuary be Cleansed!” No religion which delegates intercession to men is a Christian religion. The Savior is our ONE AND ONLY intercessor. That realization is the purging of the Sanctuary of God, bar none! That which was polluted in 538 AD (Sacrament of Reconciliation) was realized in the throes of despair of the little group of Adventists at the moment when Hiram Edson looked up and realized what happened in 1844. That message became “Christ in His Sanctuary”, George, and it is still preached today, though Adventists are barely aware of that realization. They just know that it is the right message. God works in mysterious ways and He does not require for people to understand everything that He is doing.

Ford can sing his songs all day long (And I respect that man). His objection only works on those who rendered the Daily as the Secular Roman Empire. Those who believed, and there were many great and small, in the Daily being the ministration of the Savior in heaven were outside of Ford’s objections. The others simply needed to do more thinking and they too accepted the doctrine of “Christ in His Sanctuary”, though they did not see it in its glory. Primitive Christianity was restored in 1844 as God promised and the message circled the globe. Look at all the places that Adventists have gone. Isaiah 58 tells it like it should be told. The old paths which God had instituted and ministered by the Savior, were polluted. At the end of the 2300 prophewtic days they were restored among God’s chosen few for the purpose of circling the globe as Isaiah stipulates.

Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The Lord keeps His promises. Men may fail, but God does not fail… In spite of us being like bucking mules and going in all directions, God’s plan was accomplished and there is much more to come.


Thanks Dennis.

If I were traveling in a subway with you, and had asked you, “What is so glorious about the Adventist message?” and had gotten this answer, I would conclude that the center of the SDA message is “something” about the year 1844… something that, as a Bible reader/student, I have never heard of before.

Therefore, I would just go back to reading my BIBLE, and would never step into a SDA Church. Ever! What for? To find just “that glorious message?” Nah… , I have my Bible and other churches if needed…

I am a SDA for over 60 years, and I stick with the Bible.Yes, Sola Scriptura.

But thanks for taking the time.

PS - One more little thing please,
Are you a LGTarian? … ____ YES … ____ NO


Don’t ask people about that in the Subway. There is not enough time. The pollution of the Sanctuary is quite involved and as you can see, God did not require the SDAs to have a perfected understanding of it. That does not mean that no one should understand it in detail. Most SDAs are not aware of any of this. But today some people, unlike you, want real answers. This is definitely not for the faint at heart. A feel good video on Netflix is not a model of this truth and reality. Impatience is definitely an impediment here.

The LGT definition is too vague for me to decide. Kim tried to explain it to me, but her definition was vague. Maybe you can give it a shot…

Hmmm,…A little out of order characterization, isn’t it? So…, you are making a judgment without even knowing me? :thinking:

  1. I have difficulty understanding how a person so well trained in Adventism does not know what LGT is.
  2. Just FYI: Most people who come here saying the same thing are actually LGTarians coming here on a “missionary trip.” Not saying you are one too, because I don’t know. Just telling you what we have seen.
  3. Maybe you don’t know what LGTarianism is. Have you ever heard about the Perfectionism Theory that tried to infiltrate the SDA barracks so many times? Well, LGT is the same thing, but this time disguised with a fancy name to confuse people, to impress people, and to deceive people.
  4. Sorry, I am not a LGTrian instructor, so I won’t invest time in teaching it to you. But you better look into it, not to be deceived just because the definitions you got are … “too vague.”
  5. Just another observation, Sooner or later the LGTarians start to make ad hominem attacks on those who refuse to agree with their deceitful ideas. Stay away from those people…
  6. Considering what you said so far, would you actually confirm then that,

So far you are not a LGT adept/sympathizer/follower because you actually don’t know what it is?



But in all seriousness…

Yes, there is probably some rather small actual disagreement as to the dates among those schooled in such things (various types of scientists), but for most of us not studying the many details of this long history it doesn’t matter. The key is the reality that the earth is very old and has hosted live for a very long time. It’s an irrefutable fact that makes the bible stories simply unbelievable as literal history.

Take it from a Christian Theologian who is very concerned about the future of Christianity and even the belief in God among modern people.

His book opens with this, and then gets better:

Get it from Amazon:


Thanks, this one I will most probabl read, provided the cover is not red, is it??? :wink:


The cover is almost all black and white, but the content is anything but.


Just to be safe about the color, I just got it on Kindle… LOL
Going on vacation next week, added it to my reading list.

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You’ll probably like it, though it’s quite unsettling.

George, my good friend, you made a judgment on my content as well. I have doubts that you could have understood all which was involved and you still made a precipitous judgment. I am not offended by that. To each his own. My first impression was that you do not like anything which requires you to think too much… This is not the first time you have done this even with others. Your reply was dismissive. There is no way to grasp all that is involved in the amount of time the post came up and your reply. The glory of what transpired in 1844 requires some context, reflection, processing, some research or just curiosity and clarifications.

I do understand that I am an annoyance to people who subscribe to the doctrine of Grace. And I do understand that you guys need to find fault with what I say. But unlike others, I welcome all criticism which is honest. I will take your reply into consideration.

Where did you get this information? This is new to me. Are you a professional astrophysicist or a week-end amateur like me?


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I follow all the latest research for years. Math, Astronomy, Astrophysics and Electronic design are my primary focus. Get on or look for NASA on FaceBook and you can see some of the current research without paying for a subscription. You may not get the well digested stuff, but you will at least see some of the current projects. Today’s research is fascinating. Science is advancing at a furious speed.

Here is some fun for you for free to become familiar with the parker solar probe:

Have fun…

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