Continuing the discussion from Moment of Glory:
SDARoaskill: If Christ had ‘sinless’, ‘Divine’ flesh, then how was it that immortal Divinity died at Golgotha ? . . . or did Christ just ‘fake’ death ? . . . and what else, then ?
He laid it down willingly. John 10:17,18 Therefore my Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
SDARoadkill: ‘Sin’ is a function of the ‘mind’, first. Before Jones left the SDA church he clearly taught in front of the 1895 General Conference session (Sermon #17)-- from the Bible – that the ‘mind’ of Christ was not ‘fallen’, and that it was not merely human, but Divine. But the ‘brain’ is made of ‘flesh’, isn’t it ?
So clearly, ‘mind’ in this case refers to the collection of thoughts, memories, emotions and inclinations which the ‘brain’ matter stores for recall and use, and that ‘mind of Christ’ never entertained ‘sin’, never ‘erred’. Between the upper room and Gethsemane Christ said, “The prince of this world comes, and has nothing in Me.” John 14:30 If that ‘mind of Christ’ could be transcribed into a book, there would be no evil found in it, neither to provoke a wrong act, nor to experience, nor to remember one.
Sin is a law in the flesh. Paul talks about the issue in Romans 7 when he says,
14 but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Christ was not sold under sin as we are. He did not have sin dwelling in Him as we do (contrary to what Jones says). He did not have the law of sin in His members (flesh) warring against the law of His mind. He did not have the wretched body of death that we do, therefore He is able to deliver us through the death of His own body.
He was called that holy thing.
Luke 1:34 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Genesis said that God would put enmity between Satan and the seed of the woman.
Genesis 3:15. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
When you and I came into the world we weren’t born with enmity against Satan. We need to receive that enmity from Christ.
We were born as an unclean beast in need of redemption (call it original sin if you like). Christ was born as the clean Lamb and as such, He had no need of redemption.
exodus 13:13. But every firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb; and if you will not redeem it, then you shall break its neck. And all the firstborn of man among your sons you shall redeem.
Sin is transmitted by the man, not the woman; therefore Christ could be born without sin in his flesh. He could still be tempted but He did not have that war in His flesh that Paul described in Romans 7.
SDARoadkill: Jones speaking to the General Conference session in 1895 on the ‘mind’ of Christ v.s. the ‘flesh’ of Christ. (This was years before Jones left the SDA church.):
SDARoadkill: “Now as to Christ’s not having “like passions” with us: In the Scriptures all the way through He is like us and with us according to the flesh. He is the seed of David according to the flesh. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Don’t go too far. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, not in the likeness of sinful mind. Do not drag His mind into it. His flesh was our flesh, but the mind was “the mind of Christ Jesus.” Therefore it is written: “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.” If He had taken our mind, how, then, could we ever have been exhorted to “let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus?” It would have been so already. But what kind of mind is ours? O, it is corrupted with sin also.
Made in the likeness of sinful flesh is not the same as saying He was made with sinful flesh. To be tempted in all points as we are doesn’t require sin in His flesh.
A.T. Jones: "If He had taken our mind, how, then, could we ever have been exhorted to “let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus?” It would have been so already. But what kind of mind is ours? O, it is corrupted with sin also.
Jones takes liberties with the word “mind” in the same way he transforms the phrase “likeness of sinful flesh” into “flesh full of sin”. Jones was a mangler of the English language and a distorter of biblical truth (IMO). Paul wasn’t saying anything different (let this mind be in you) than Christ did when He exhorted his disciples to be servants if they wanted to be great. It was a state of mind, not a doctrinal statement on the nature of Christ, that was being taught. It’s no wonder Jones fell off the deep end! The fact that EGW rebuked Jones for his views tells a story about Jones.
I could argue the same way Jones does in regards to the flesh of Christ and it would make a lot more sense (IMO). Referring to John 6:
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
If Christ had the same sinful flesh as us, why does He say we must eat His flesh? What’s the point?
SDARoadkill: If Jesus had had the un-fallen flesh (DNA) of Adam – before sin – then he would have been at least a 16 pound baby, and Mary would probably have died trying to give birth to such a ‘Giant Jesus’, if not sooner. The human body of Jesus had to fit in with those that existed at the time He was born.
Not sure where you pulled this out of. Sounds like something EGW would say.