Moment of Glory

(Steve Mga) #21

Harrpa –
In the times that Paul wrote that in a letter to the 1st Corinthians, there was a
Jewish custom of having the Blessing [giving thanks] for the fruit of the vine –
the grape juice if fresh, wine is not fresh, and for grain in the form of bread.
Jesus changed this ancient action of thanks as Israel crossed over Jordan
from the nomadic activity of 40 years to permanent homes and land they
could cultivate with vines and grain. He changed the emblems from the long
past to the present – His body “broken for you”, His “blood shed for you, the
forgiveness of sins.” Normally this Blessing and the partaking of bread and
wine was done each evening meal.
So Paul was saying that ANYTIME you do the partaking of the bread and wine
at a meal, to remember the significance of these to the sacrifice and gift of
Christ. And do so in a reverent way, a reverent attitude.
The modern time table to do this in Christianity is MAN MADE.
My Jewish friends do the Blessing ceremony each Friday evening after the
evening service with bread and wine – fresh or old. When I do it with them,
I am doing it in my mind the “Jesus-Paul way”.
Episcopalians do the ceremony about each time they meet, which can be a
number of times a week.

(Peter) #22

Ellen White: “We should spend a thoughtful hour each day…” On what? The closing scenes of Christ’s life. Yet for years Adventists ignored Easter (“too Catholic”). Even now, such as at the church I attend, the church makes a lot out of Easter but ignores everything leading up to it. Today Christians remembered Christ’s “triumphal entry” when he disappointed the Jews by not seeking political power. On Thursday Christians will remember the Last Supper. And on Friday the Crucifixion! The vast majority of Adventists totally ignore the “closing events” in spite of what even EGW said. How unfortunate. Did we throw the baby out with the bath water in order to not be Catholic?

(Caddy) #24

Roadkill, concerning that video, you might want to check out Ron Wyatt and Ron Wyatt. Pretty serious stuff.

(David) #25

Michael, I don’t understand your alleged inability to understand a sensitivity to the timing of a religious observance. Look at the contention between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church over the timing of Easter. Would you say that one or the other were being overly sensitive about the timing of a religious ceremony? Why wasn’t Easter a month ago following the full moon on the day of the vernal equinox on March 20? Do you think the Roman Catholics, the Anglicans, the episcopalians, the Adventists, the Mormons, the Jehovah witnesses, the baptists, the Methodists, etc., etc. are being overly sensitive about their requirement that Easter can’t fall before March 22? What about the thousands of followers of Christ who were imprisoned or killed during the Middle Ages because they didn’t observe the Catholic unholy week and its Easter? Do you think the Roman Catholics were being overly sensitive about a certain segment of the population that didn’t tow the Catholic line, that didn’t observe the Catholic holy days that were required by the “faithful”? What about the first Christians who refused to observe the pagan Roman holidays and suffered for it? Were they being overly sensitive to the timing of religious ceremonies?

Christ said in John 7, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready.

Do you think that maybe there could be something important about the timing of His death? That maybe Constantine’s Easter formula was purposely designed to subvert the meaning behind the timing of His death?

What exactly is your belief system Michael? Are you a Roman Catholic?

(Steve Mga) #26

Regarding differences between Roman [EASTERN] Catholics and Orthodox
[WESTERN] Catholics, they have these differences.

  1. Christmas dates. Roman: Dec 25. Orthodox: Jan 6.
  2. Priest marry. Roman NO! Orthodox. Yes, but one time only. If one’s wife
    dies, cannot remarry.
  3. Slight difference on Nicene Creed. Roman: Holy Spirit comes from the
    Father AND the Son. Orthodox: Holy Spirit comes only from the Father.
    Actually this reading is what split the Orthodox from the Western branch.
    “and the Son” was put in by the Pope at a later date WITHOUT a
    “General Conference” vote on the reading.

(David) #27

Jones got all tangled up in the topic of Christ taking the fallen nature of Adam to the point where he held the belief that Christ had sinful flesh. He actually referred to it as “flesh full of sin”. Jones ultimately left the Adventist church. I’m not sure where he ended up. I don’t think he had God’s message for the church. Ellen White herself contradicted the gospel writer when entering into the fray on the topic of the nature of Christ. Ellen White may have had a few good things to say but she was not a prophet (ess).


‘Tentmaker’s’ founders are now dead. If they were alive they would have seen that Ryan Mauro was a guest on the Glenn Beck show recently to promote the video of his own visit to the Mt. Sinai that Ron Wyatt and his 2 sons visited in Saudi Arabia in 1984, spending 78 days in Saudi and Jordanian jails for the privilege. Tim Mahoney has just released his second ‘Patterns of Evidence’ film, and is now working on 2 more, that cover the Red Sea/Aqaba crossing site just to the northwest of Mt. Sinai, and Mt. Sinai, itself.

The Turkish Government has no problem believing that the remains of Noah’s Ark have been found. They have built a visitor center there.

So, I’m more inclined to listen to the people who actually risked their lives and got their hands dirty checking such things out, than I am to listen to ‘back seat drivers’, ‘arm chair quarterbacks’ and self-appointed hecklers from the side lines. Nothing attracts criticism like initiative, but that initiative by Ron Wyatt and his family is also slowly and steadily being backed up by second, third, 4th . . . corroborating witnesses.

The first white man to explore northwest Wyoming returned to ‘civilization’ describing what was first ridiculed as ‘Colter’s Hell’, but is now Yellowstone National Park.

And, by the way . . . Ron Wyatt was not the first to say that the Ark of the Covenant was to be found at Golgotha. General Charles Gordon was, nearly a century before Ron Wyatt did. He said so in a letter to a friend which can be read in a book published by a former caretaker’s wife of the Garden Tomb near Golgotha.


If Christ had ‘sinless’, ‘Divine’ flesh, then how was it that immortal Divinity died at Golgotha ? . . . or did Christ just ‘fake’ death ? . . . and what else, then ?

‘Sin’ is a function of the ‘mind’, first. Before Jones left the SDA church he clearly taught in front of the 1895 General Conference session (Sermon #17)-- from the Bible – that the ‘mind’ of Christ was not ‘fallen’, and that it was not merely human, but Divine. But the ‘brain’ is made of ‘flesh’, isn’t it ?

So clearly, ‘mind’ in this case refers to the collection of thoughts, memories, emotions and inclinations which the ‘brain’ matter stores for recall and use, and that ‘mind of Christ’ never entertained ‘sin’, never ‘erred’. Between the upper room and Gethsemane Christ said, “The prince of this world comes, and has nothing in Me.” John 14:30 If that ‘mind of Christ’ could be transcribed into a book, there would be no evil found in it, neither to provoke a wrong act, nor to experience, nor to remember one.

Jones speaking to the General Conference session in 1895 on the ‘mind’ of Christ v.s. the ‘flesh’ of Christ. (This was years before Jones left the SDA church.):

“Now as to Christ’s not having “like passions” with us: In the Scriptures all the way through He is like us and with us according to the flesh. He is the seed of David according to the flesh. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Don’t go too far. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, not in the likeness of sinful mind. Do not drag His mind into it. His flesh was our flesh, but the mind was “the mind of Christ Jesus.” Therefore it is written: “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.” If He had taken our mind, how, then, could we ever have been exhorted to “let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus?” It would have been so already. But what kind of mind is ours? O, it is corrupted with sin also. Look at ourselves in the second chapter of Ephesians, beginning with the first verse and reading to the third, but the third verse is the one that has this particular point in it:”
{GCB/GCDB 1895, p. 327.1}

Apparently this is how it adds up, then:

human sinner = fallen mind + fallen flesh

Divine-human Christ = un-fallen mind + fallen flesh

If Jesus had had the un-fallen flesh (DNA) of Adam – before sin – then he would have been at least a 16 pound baby, and Mary would probably have died trying to give birth to such a ‘Giant Jesus’, if not sooner. The human body of Jesus had to fit in with those that existed at the time He was born.

(Steve Mga) #30

Re. Jesus:
You bring up another question.
The Miracles Jesus did. Did Jesus the human cause them? Or was it
God the Father who did them THROUGH Jesus?
Did Jesus use ANY Divinity Power during His “Human” lifetime prior to
the Resurrection? Or was it God working through Him, like God works
through us?


This is my understanding.