NAD Calls for GC Compliance Document to be Rescinded — NAD Year-end Meetings Day 6


#22

A group of Israelites pressured Aaron to make gods for them, and Aaron gives in to the pressure and complies with their demand, fashioning a golden calf for them.
So much for leadership then or in the NAD.


(Peter Marks) #23

I trust that you may be proved correct.

The 3 requests for action by the NAD document are certainly their ultimate aim.

I think however that their needs to be a significant amount of meeting of the minds of the leaders of the world field before such ideas are likely to fly.

This will require a significant investment of time in collaborating together across cultures, briefing other leaders about the issues from our perspective. Division and Union leaders often fan out into the world field beyond their local fields on a multitude of missions. Why not add this mission to the many others they undertake. Specialists in cross cultural communication need to guide processes such as this.

The issue of the ordination of women in ministry must not be viewed in terms of women’s rights as opposed to those who assert the men’s right to be the sole ordained class ie. male headship.

Rather than treat this issue in terms of social justice, rights and equality of opportunity Adventists must learn to express these issues in terms of God’s right to choose who should be in pastoral leadership. This requires Adventists with the spiritual gift of discernment to discern what God is doing in the lives of individual leaders among us and then to affirm, bless and consecrate those leaders of both genders accordingly.

If people in the NAD continue to assert that this issue is primarily about social justice, equality and non-discrimination we should not be surprised if large sections of the world field battle against this.

If people in the NAD assert a feminist rights agenda or even more if they confess a commitment to a gay rights agenda no one should be surprised if the world field absolutely shrinks from this.


(Phillip Brantley) #24

What can the GC’s compliance committees do? They cannot operate with respect to the NAD, as per the NAD’s supermajority vote. They have no authority in the NAD, as per the NAD’s supermajority vote. What the GC’s compliance committees can do is aggressively address policy noncompliance in Africa, South America, and Asia, as the GC Executive Committee delegates from those continents have expressed overwhelming support for the GC’s compliance committees.

I share Jim Micheff’s horror that the GC has been seriously weakened during Ted Wilson’s presidency. The weakness of the GC is Wilson’s principal legacy. When the GC votes an action that is implemented for the benefit of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the GC’s authority is strengthened and the GC is thereby legitimized and appreciated. But when the GC votes an action that immediately becomes a dead letter, the GC’s authority is weakened and the GC is thereby delegitimized and heavily scorned.


(Rheticus) #25

The Union Conferences served by the NAD need to send a clear message to the GC that they are NOT controlled by GC policies, and that if the GC acts in manners that embarrass or harass the people that are carrying messages from the UC’s to the GC, then they will stop buying support services from the GC.

The GC needs to be reminded, in no uncertain terms, that they are a service organisation that is employed at the will of the UC’s to provide services that the UC’s perceive they need.

This also came out in the tithe discussion. UC’s can not be “out of compliance” with a GC working policy for the simple reason that GC working policies specify the behavior of the GC, and in no way constrain the actions of UC’s.


(George Tichy) #27

The GC is so weak now that it actually lost its relevancy completely.
What is the GC good for right now, other than creating trouble, disunity, and wasting tons of precious money?

Dissolve the GC, and only good will result from it!


#28

I saw that Fulc7 article and was sorely offended. It was my great pleasure to care for my daughters when they were young, up to and including changing diapers as needed. Feminizing? Gay? Hooey!


(Steve Mga) #29

Looking at the lives of persons in the Old and New Testaments, it is obvious that
The Trinity is an Equal Opportunity Employer.
Recall that prior to Ellen being called, God called a Black Gentleman to bring the
same messages as later given to Ellen.
“God” calls by many prophets that social justice is high on “His” list of requirements.
A translation word is “Equity” – the Quality of being Fair and Impartial.
Prophets tell us that “God is no respecter of persons”.
The “God” tells us in the Word that we are “to be God-like”.
Our Policies, Our Procedures are to REFLECT God-Likeness.
It is evident by the actions of the recent past, and present that SDA Leadership is NOT
reflecting God-Likeness.


(George Tichy) #30

Peter,
There is always some hope, though sometimes it all seems very dark.
I will sleep very peacefully tonight after seeing the Democrats saving Democracy in America. We almost fell of the cliff, but we are safer now. The tumor didn’t disappear but it shrank considerably yesterday!

I think I feel the same regarding the Church. After seeing the NAD acting very assertively, I am confident that the (irrelevant) GC will not step on our toes that easily.

Feeling relieved!


#31

You know NAD is dying anyway
Its numbers are dwindling


(Andreas Bochmann) #32

You would have to ask the EUD (and furthermore … I have to rely on reliable sources, as I wasn’t there). But my understanding is that they didn’t want to pour further oil into the fire. There position is very clear, the support of the Unions and institutions are wonderful and very much appreciated. Thus the silence sounds a bit British (actually not part of the EUD): keep calm and pretend there is no such document. And to me that makes sense at this point.


(Andreas Bochmann) #33

I disagree. Within the EUD you find the first Union who decided for WO, the EUD was a divsion with a unanimous [sic.] vote on their Biblical Research Committee’s pro WO statement that was requested from all divisions. And there is clear agreement among Unions, strongly supported by the EUD. It is more a matter of leadership style how loud protests are voiced - but the substance is very clear. And at the EUD meeting there could be no doubt.

The EUD wouldn’t have been able to comment on what happened at NAD Year End Meeting - as they happened simultaneously.


(Peter Marks) #34

Yes! The EUD has been very cohesive on WO. And yes I’m glad that the EUD BRC was fully in support of WO. So was the South Pacific Division BRC.

But surely the Compliance Policy document has a broader aim than just in preventing WO. Shouldn’t EUD have highlighted in a very public way the deficits they saw in the policy?

I believe that both the NAD’s reaction in their response document, the tithe parity discussion and move and Dan Jackson’s hooey speech was intended as a pastoral response intended to stop the haemorrhaging of the NAD membership.


(Frank Peacham) #35

Interesting video on growing cities. In all the NAD discussions I did not notice interest in reaching maga cities with innovative approaches to secular people. As we argue among ourselves, feeling secure with a Billion Dollars in annual tithe (shamefully spending over 20% on administration), our religious ideas become more obscure to the millions living in large cities. Really who is interested in joining a church in turmoil?? Good charities keep administracion expenses down to low single digits.

The NAD has bungled the WO issue, creating a unnecessary power play, one against the other. Creating the impression that the GC is not moved by the Spirit, thus not trustworthy. With poor leadership the NAD positioned itself in rebellion against the GC. They should have just quietly followed their conscience, supporting all who wish to do so. Conscious issues have never been uniform among Christians worldwide nor in church history.

I wish the NAD leadership could have found other legal ways to to ordain women. Such as to abolish the “Elder” label and create a new title–“church shepard,” or “caretaker,” or just " church leader." Where both men and women are equal in pay and authority. Furthermore don’t call it an ordination service, but a new title such as “answering the call to service.”


(George Tichy) #36

This strategy may work well. It’s basically ignoring the GC and keep taking care of business as usually. A good move; the GC cannot (yet) be dissolved but it can be ignored. I can’t see how could there ever be any “grave consequences” if they do that.

The Kompliance Kommandos cannot just knock on the door of a certain Union/Conference to investigate people and what they do. And if they do, they can too be ignored.

The similarity between what is happening in America and in the SDAC is astonishing. No wonder this slogan applies to both very properly, MADA:

“Make America/Adventism Decent Again.”

This is what is needed, badly: MADA! The ideal would be if TW resigned. Or can he be impeached due to terrorist acts? Isn’t inflicting fear and terrifying people in Church a true act of terrorism? I know these are strong words, but so are too the fearful feelings triggered by the threats posed by TW’s tentacles.


(George Tichy) #37

There was no higher cohesiveness than the one at SID BRC… :roll_eyes:
Remember the “Ratsara Report?” That was the voice of a very coherent committee…


(George Tichy) #38

Isn’t it a shame that the GC and other regions on the planet are so avidly taking the money from a (according to you) soon-to-be-defunct Division?

As a Christian response, shouldn’t the other Divisions and the GC now try to save the “dying NAD?” They should inject money for evangelism into the NAD! At least as a symbolic act of mercy as recognition for what the NAD has done for so many years, sending fortunes to those other regions.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #39

An excellent effort doomed to failure but a thorn that will wound Ted Wilson serious enough to cause his retirement at or before the next GC. in the mean time the compliance committees are unwheldly thus inept. To point a finger means four are pointing back.

The Book of Hebrews was written not only for the Jews in Rome but for each intelligent being. As such a lot more than W O needs to be reconsidered.


(Joselito Coo) #41

I agree we need spiritually gifted women and men of discernment to lead the way. What did a supermajority vote at the GC Executive Committee and NAD year-end meetings accomplish but expose our disunity and division in our midst.

Division presidents have multiple opportunities to present their concerns to GC top executives; among others, first to the council of division presidents and second at GC Executive Committee meetings. Giving free opportunity for union and institutional leaders to express themselves was a wise move, I believe. I

@elmer_cupino will understand what I’m saying: Talo ang pikon! Winners don’t lose their cool. That at some point Elder Jackson had to be reminded by an associate to “Calm down” was revealing. Contrast TW’s demeanor. Andrea Luxton. Sandra Ro berts. To name a few.


(Joselito Coo) #42

Anonymous electronic voting out the window.

Grave consequences vs grave consequences. If tithe parity were the NAD’s major weapon in its arsenal, think again. A close look at the number of compliant immigrant tithe-paying SDAs in non-compliant unions of the NAD might prove informative.

TitheStorage
nadtitheshate2017

How might tithe parity benefit local congregations?


(Tim Teichman) #46

You meant the GC, didn’t you? Whatever the NAD’s failure, it is only in the context of responding to the nonsense at the GC.