NAD Calls for GC Compliance Document to be Rescinded — NAD Year-end Meetings Day 6


(Elmer Cupino) #49

A billion dollars collected in a “dwindling” church. Can you imagine if it were not dwindling!


#51

They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
Matthew 22:21

Why do people think money $$$$$ only
You think this bible text is just $$$$$


(Thomas J Zwemer) #53

George, Will Rogers said there is absolutely no educational value from a second kick by a mule. so why did the church elect Ted after the mess of a Neal? MaryKay Silver, Davenport, Glacier View. Oh yes what was that furniture maker that went belly up.


#54

The old fallacy of logic–guilt by association. In this case, false association. These two incidents have nothing to do with each other.


#55

Harris Pine Mills in Oregon?


#56

There are some interesting and valid points being made here by people
with different points of view.
What intrigues me is Dan Jackson’s statement: “We have got to stop talking about
the brethren like they’re scumbags.” [Perhaps he wasn’t using the generic gender?]
Was he referring to -

  1. NAD WO supporters’ stance towards the GC? (only)
  2. GC’s threatening compliance committees document? (only)
  3. Some other group/s? (only)
  4. All of the above? :thinking:

(Elmer Cupino) #57

You may wish all you can but it takes financial resources to preach the three angels message until our ordained male ministers develop wings. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:


#58

What was he referring to?

It seems that some (like the G.C.) believe that if there is disagreement, there is rebellion and criticism. Just holding another view and expressing it straightforwardly is not necessarily criticism.

However, ultra-sensitive anti-WO have felt “attacked” by pro-WO views.

Having said that, I have seen very little name-calling by pro-WO; I have seen those who don’t agree with pro-WO take simple statements as “fighting words.”

Here at Spectrum and other places pro-WO have been compared to Korah, Dathan, Abihu; Aaron and the golden Calf; Satan in rebellion; and have been invited directly to leave the church immediately.

This crowd calls pro-WO arrogant and rebellious if one sees things differently from the anti-WO. There have even been accusations of Type 2 Spiritualism, a term I never learned in Adventist history class, did you?

It boggles the mind.


(Elmer Cupino) #59

A perfect example of how much time it takes ministers to manage a business entity until it files for bankruptcy.


(bre) #60

is there any form of research or article that dissects the thought processes of EGW? She did vaguely speak for and then against racial segregation. Perhaps she was influenced and suppressed by the time being anti POC and also being a female in a male dominated environment. We can never tell. We are all sinners! Even EGW and Kellogg were. I grew up SDA and its true that Women play an important role in the church. They are often times more proactive. Men, on the other hand, are sometimes just good at giving commands and talking. blah-


(Frank Peacham) #61

Sure the GC started it. Yet the NAD has escalated the tension. I believe they could have obtained WO by other means: calling it something different and by bring commissioned pastors pay the equal to the ordained. Instead NAD leadership has chosen to declare an open war of rebellion against the GC. We should expect many casualties as the results of the failure of love. Now anybody with a gripe can choose to thumb their noses at local pastors as well as NAD leaders. It will never stop. Neither will the NAD actions bring revival and repentance.

I pity the Pastor that finds himself at odds with this church elders over WO. His ministry is compromised, thanks to the leadership of the GC and the NAD that has inflamed this issue instead of finding compromise and becoming PEACEMAKERS.


#62

Frank,

This simply is not true.

Elder Jackson explained that he personally proposed a way forward to Ted Wilson, who rejected it.

Unless the church opens up leadership to all commissioned pastors for decision-making and management positions, it is complicit in flagrant gender discrimination by totally leaving women, the majority of the membership, out of the decision-making loop at every level.

The ones who are on the receiving end of thumbing noses are women.

As Elder Jackson said, "if it is from God nothing can stop it; if it is not from God, it cannot succeed.

When is the last time you attended a church with a female senior pastor? No one who is from God has a ministry compromised who is open to the Biblical principle: Your young women and men shall prophesy and dream dreams. There is no Jew or Greek, male nor female. This enduring principle should be the guiding principle of how our church operates.

People who operate with these principles are not “declaring an open war of rebellion against the G.C.” To the contrary; those who wage war against men and women as ministers of the Gospel of Jesus are in rebellion.


(Steve Mga) #64

Frank –
There can be NO PEACE between the 2 different views about Women Pastors.

  1. The GC Plan – Women Pastors HAVE TO BE Commissioned ONLY. This means
    they can ONLY have the Pulpit and be paid as a pastor in their home Conference.
    They can ONLY have the Pulpit in a Local Church. They CANNOT advance to a
    Leadership Position in their Conference.
    Commissioned pastors are paid LESS than Ordained Male Pastors.

  2. The North American Division Plan – Women Pastors to be Ordained and allowed
    to have the same position as their Male Counterparts. They MAY advance to Leadership
    positions in their Conference, Union, and possibly to the NAD.
    The View is that Women AND Men can advance the giving of the Gospel equally. That
    the Spirit of God is ABLE to Equip BOTH men and women equally in assisting with the
    needs of the Church.

Frank – there is no way that these two positions are able to be compatible. We CANNOT
accept the position of the Leadership of those Leaders in the Silver Springs Offices regarding
the Role of Women in the SDA Church.


(George Tichy) #65

Tom, one serious problem is that the GC is not operated as a Church but as a common business. With all politics and maneuvers needed to keep the business running and keeping it in the hands of groups that like the power and the “authority” they feel in their hands. All “hooey and baloney” indeed.

This is one reason why I say that the GC is completely irrelevant to the real Church. Besides being a suction apparatus that devours “green stuff” called tithe. It needs to be dissolved and those pastors working there must go back to the “pastoring churches business.”


(George Tichy) #66

I think it’s # 2.
///


(George Tichy) #67

This would still be, in essence, discrimination against women, isn’t it?


(milton hook) #68

TW wanted executive power at the Union level where hiring and firing takes place. He wanted the power to fire those who advocated WO and those who taught a non-literal interpretation of Genesis 1 to 11.
What he has finished up with is a NAD that serves as a protector of those who advocate WO, etc. and an open invitation to fire advocates of WO in the Third World Divisions where there are very few advocating WO, etc.
So TW has effectively demonstrated that the GC is a toothless tiger. Congratulations Ted. Just continue on your junket tours around the world, cutting ribbons, smiling for the cameras and dressing up as a nineteenth century Millerite.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #69

Yes, indeed.it was Harris pine


(Thomas J Zwemer) #70

George. it is pean time in Georgia. you know nuts done fall far from the tree.Ted fits the bill. Like father like son without the cunning.


(Steve Mga) #71


This is from God’s Last Call to His People Facebook site.
[also posted on Hooey and Credulity]. Last call, calls for the women
of the church to be subservient to their husbands in the home and in
the church. Says it is Satanic for women to be allowed to have any
independence or to have any positions in the Church.
Says that the IDEA of Husband and Wife to be “Partners” in the home
is from SATAN.
I say – MORE POWER TO THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH.
We NEED more women like Jelena.