Netherlands Union Lists Job Opening for Female or Male Pastors

What would it take for you to be fully convinced over this “hypocrisy?”

There are individuals who continue to cloak hypocrisy under the guise of “people rebelling against the powers that God has ordained” and then there are those, the likes of @GeorgeTichy and myself, who would like to rid our church of this hypocrisy by exposing those who “wish to exert illegitimate power over someone else.”

Which side are you on?


Do you use that verse to cancel these?

Matt 18:3 (also Mark 10:15, Luke 18:17)
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 18:4
Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.


A lowly child, Hopeful, will not be an oppressor. You have enough intelligence to understand that, or are you lacking in discrimination?

Claiming lowered morality is a laugh. Throughout history it has always been women who have had higher morals and endeavored to promote morality. Without woman, men would be animals, some have said.


Well, I didn’t expect you to be consistent, but you’ve exceeded my expectations.


Which truths? That women are subservient creatures devoid of their own freedoms and abilities? Or the truth that in Christ there is neither male or female, Jew or gentile, free or slave, we are all one?


What would have happened had he chosen a female disciple? Sending them out “two by two” to preach the gospel?


Thank you for your answer. I really appreciate it and read it with interest. You mentioned the same point that @kevindpaulson said in his reply to the same question: that there would be a moral decline.

Why exactly do you think this might occur. What is it about say, a female pastor, that could possibly lead the church into moral decline? Why specifically would women’s ordination cause this?

Thank you again for your thoughtful response above :sunny:


What happened to Israel when Korah campaigned for ordination? What happened to Israel when Saul did not wait for Samuel and offered sacrifice? What happened to Israel when Jeroboam selected non-Levites to be priests? What happened to Israel when women were making ruling decisions for them (Jezebel, Athaliah)? What happened to Israel any and every time that God’s design was rejected in favor of human opinion or establishment?

When God gives us plain and simple criteria upon which to select, in the fear of God, men of character to be our leaders, what will happen if we ignore those criteria in favor of a “new culture”?

If we are unable to learn from the past, we are destined to repeat its mistakes.

1 Like

When comments as troubling as this start being posted, it’s time to turn to the next page…


I believe, by extension, He did. Those 12 men were not a bunch of bachelors. When Jesus sent them out by twos, it was not a matter of “Peter, you and your wife go this way and…” He paired the men, which meant it was actually two families/couples joining in the effort.

Jesus was training the leaders for His church. The fact He did not ordain any women among them should be strong evidence of His backing for a male leadership.

Isn’t it amazing that some people can’t see that it’s been those that are loaded with testosterone that have brought shame to the church so often? (Reminds me of Pipim-ism…)
And they still say that women are the ones that can actually lower the morals in church?
Are they just trying to distract the audience’s attentions for some unknown reason?



Thanks again for the reply. But you have answered in broad non specific strokes.

What is it about women specifically that makes them unsuitable for ordination?

BTW, “I don’t know” is a perfectly acceptable answer!


Jesus also appointed 70/72 disciples referenced in Luke whom He sent out by twos. Where does Scripture identify them as only males? Where do we read that two couldn’t be a married couple?

1 Like

The most specific answer I can give is that God has not chosen them. He has not given us any directive to place women in the position of an elder. As for more specificity, ask God. I could speculate, but only God knows His reasons. I suspect it has to do with multiple things, as usual. The biggest one is a matter of obedience.

For example, the fruit of the tree of knowledge that God forbade them to eat–why? To test them. To see if they would be faithful. God tests His people still today. Will we follow His directions, or go in the way that seems right to us instead?

What happened to Israel because of the decisions of King Ahab and Jehoram? Didn’t Jehoram of Judah kill 5 of his brothers to become heir to the kingdom of Judah? Jehu assassinated the king and became the king of Israel himself. There was so much bloodshed and evil in these stories that I shudder to think how anyone can point to Jezebel and Athaliah as the bad guys. Everyone involved was involved in some kind of treachery: murderous plots, power grabs, strange alliances and brutality.


I wouldn’t say that’s really a good argument, Togkam. We could do the same with the kings of Israel and Judah.


(1. Jeroboam I - bad ) (2. Nadab - bad) (3. Baasha - bad) (4. Elah - bad)
(5. Zimri - bad) (6. Omri - extra bad) (7. Ahab - very bad) (8. Ahaziah - bad)
(9. Joram - mostly bad) (10. Jehu - mostly bad) (11. Jehoahaz - bad)
(12. Jehoash - bad) (13. Jeroboam II - bad) (14. Zechariah - bad)
(15. Shallum - bad) (16. Menahem - bad) (17. Pekah - bad) (18. Pekahiah - bad)
(19. Hoshea - bad)


(1. Rehoboam - bad mostly) (2. Abijah - bad mostly) (3. Asa - Good)
(4. Jehoshaphat - good) (5. Jehoram - bad) (6. Ahaziah - bad)
(7. Joash - good mostly) (8. Amaziah - good mostly) (9. Azariah - good)
(10. Jotham - good) (11. Ahaz - wicked) (12. Hezekiah - very good)
(13. Manasseh - very bad/repented) (14. Amon - very bad) (15. Josiah - very good)
(16. Jehoahaz - bad) (17. Jehoiakim wicked) (18. Jehoiachin - bad)

10 wicked/bad mostly
8 very good/good mostly

All 19 kings were - wicked/bad mostly

The results are in! And my conclusion?..neither men or women should be allowed to rule :smile:


Fair enough…It was a fancy ‘I don’t know’ but an ‘I don’t know’ nonetheless.

I just don’t see it that God is testing us with WO. He sure made it harder by prophetically ordaining EGW if He is!

Personally I believe that it comes down to the moral fortitude, strength and calling of the individual. Woman or man.

I sure as heck couldn’t pastor a church for even a day. But I was absolutely at ease and confident being nurse in charge if a 30 cell forensic psych. unit in Sydney. Go figure.

TBH I often found church in general to be pretty terrifying.


Certainly there have been many wicked men, and many other wicked women as well. You are correct in that. But Israel had some good kings: David, Solomon, Josiah, Hezekiah, etc. Many men in the Bible were good and faithful leaders for the people: Moses, Joshua, Ezra & Nehemiah, Samuel, Gideon, Joseph, Abraham – to name a few in no special order; all men. There was never a woman in all of the Bible whom God established to be in authority as a leader over His people. When God chose a leader, it was always a man. He chose some women to be prophetesses, yes, but they were never the one in charge. Consider Miriam vs. Moses; Deborah vs. Barak; Huldah vs. Josiah, etc. Never did God even appoint a woman queen to reign over His people. Esther was queen of Babylon, not Israel, appointed by the king, not God’s direction (though certainly by His providence to defeat the evil purposes of Haman), and she was not in authority, for the king held that position. Even after Haman was gone, the Jew who had influence and authority was not Esther, but Mordecai, her cousin who had been a father to her.

I’ve never been to the Netherlands, and I’m sure what you’re telling me is correct. My point is that I thought the EU would come down on discrimination like a ton of bricks. The discrimination is open. I wonder if such a job ad would be acceptable or legal in Australia. I believe we generally only allow discrimination in favour of the indigenous people. Here, there is discrimination not only in favour of women but also in favour of people who studied at a particular institution and also age discrimination. This is the EU, not some developing country. The EU come down hard on all sorts of things.