Observations on the Compliance Discussion


(Frankmer7) #296

Since when is a voted GC policy on an issue with no clear biblical prohibition, equivalent to Jesus’s beliefs? Since when is the belief that the distribution of the gifts of the Spirit is limited by chromosomes equivalent to Jesus’s beliefs? Since when is the imposition of a voted policy upon those who honestly dissent over missiological need and matters of conscience equivalent to Jesus’s beliefs?

Did you never read Acts 15 and see how the early church allowed for diversity of practice regarding the inclusion of Gentiles in relation to the Law, and how this was in response to the Spirit and to the testimony of those regarding the Spirit’s work amongst the Gentiles? Why was the testimony of female Chinese pastors, and the Spirit’s work among and through them, and why were the results of the TOSC not even considered and blocked from the floor at SA 2015? Since when is this type of manipulation consistent with Jesus’s beliefs? Since when is this keeping in step with the Spirit?

It was the allowance for a diverse unity by the early church that reveals a moving in concert with Jesus’s beliefs and his Spirit…not a heavy handed ultimatum of comply with the vote or get out, and certainly not the manipulation of the run up to that vote.

You may need to seriously re-examine what Jesus actually values and believes…as well as truly read the NT without blinders.

Frank


(Tim Teichman) #297

Never mind we don’t know what he believed. We know what he is reported to have said, from a bunch of authors that wrote decades after he died who never knew or met him.

They’re not!


(Brent) #298

yes thats an excellent example of people overcoming there cultural bias but what it isn`t is people contradicting
Biblical princapals for that example Dathan & Korah

Numbers 16:3-5 (KJV) 3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Lord? 4 And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face: 5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the Lord will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
Numbers 16:28-32 (KJV) 28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind. 29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord hath not sent me. 30 But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord.
31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: 32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.


(Brent) #299

just another example from the new testament in case people assume this is not relevant

Acts 5:1-11 (KJV) 1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whilst it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. 11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


(Brent) #300

i would like to clarify i fully support woman who are called by God, preaching, teaching , and pay equality
but not unbiblical constructs dressed up as christianity

have you checked that the only Biblical example of the wo situation is Jezebel
surely not an example to emulate but truly culturally acceptable to the majority of religions


(George Tichy) #301

If by “wo” you mean "women ordination,"then this is an outrageous statement, a vicious disrespect for the so many women who are dedicated pastors right now, many of them already ordained.

So, let’s clarify it:

Are you a discriminator of women?
YES ___ … … NO ___


(Frankmer7) #302

I’ll say it again…the issue of WO has no clear biblical prohibition. We have had team after team of scholars, the latest being the TOSC, that have come to the same conclusion. For decades. Or do you and those who are against WO, not care what those study committees concluded?

Thus, since it doesn’t contradict any biblical principle, your comparison to Dathan and Korah is a total non sequitur. In fact, the vote to impose a worldwide uniformity of practice is more of a violation of the principle of a diverse unity that is seen throughout the NT. The global south’s vote, backed and manipulated by TW and GC leadership, with no regard for missiological need and cultural circumstances in the developed world, is more out of step with the truth of the gospel than anything pro WO groups have advocated.

Ananais and Sapphira were put to death for lying to the Holy Spirit. That’s the point of the story. You either don’t seem to understand that this has no connection to the WO issue of the present, or you are being highly insulting, calling WO advocates liars. Neither option sounds good, but the second is far worse! Please clarify!

You seem to be not only saying that WO advocates are liars, but you now compare ordaining women preachers to Jezebel, a false prophet whose teaching, as called out in Revelation, was an advocation of compromise with idol and emperor worship in the 1st c., and fitting in with that status quo. You can claim whatever you want, but you are not a supporter of women who are called by God into ministry. You grossly misinterpret and misapply the NT, in order to trash the entire idea of WO.

The bible is dangerous in the hands of people who do what you have just done with it.

Frank


(George Tichy) #303

Frank, can you please save your last post and then copy & paste it every time someone writes something weird and completely unreasonable?
Thanks. :+1: :+1: :+1:


(Frankmer7) #304

This discussion is surreal, George! This person not only distorts and twists the Bible, but also uses it as a weapon to accuse the innocent.

Fundamentalism is a dangerous thing!

Thanks…

Frank


(George Tichy) #305

Yes Frank, sometimes I wonder why I still engage in conversations with people who say that kind of things. They are beyond surreal, they are insane and not good for the soul because they are disturbing. I mean, who won’t become disturbed with those thoughts and statements?

When I read them, the word that comes to my mind is “cult.” Then I feel ashamed that my religion of so many years produced that kind of results. Then I get some relief from knowing that there are also many people that did not become fanatics and believers in ideas that are not really Christian.

But it is all confusing and mind boggling, isn’t it? :thinking:

I just started reading the biography pf John Huss, to learn how that great Christian dealt with the insanity of religious people. I am Czech, and he was “from that area”… Maybe I have some traits of his DNA… :wink:


(Kim Green) #306

"The bible is dangerous in the hands of people who do what you have just done with it."

Yes, the Bible can (and is) used as a weapon in the hands of discriminators of women. There can literally be a text and interpretation for anything that someone wants to believe. In the case of the SDA Hard Righters (ie Fundamentalists) only their thoughts and views are “correct”. I know because they tell me this on nearly a daily basis.

I would be more outraged about the analogy of Jezebel and women ministers…but I have heard so much negativity from so many of these fine male LGTers that it can make your skin crawl. You have done a fantastic rebuttal and I thank-you for this.


#307

11-13-18 - #12 (292)

In the house I grew up in, the Bible was heavily used as a white supremacy manifesto.

Come on, people, the joke’s on us: the Bible is a
Rorschach Ink Blot Test:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


(Tim Teichman) #308

Never was a truer statement made. The atrocities done in the name of God “as revealed in scripture” are astounding.


(Spectrumbot) #309

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