On Rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy

Spectrum Website
#116

The article is no doubt completely correct and I would emphasise living the Gospel any day over parsing prophetic words and looking for signs BUT the author knows full well “social justice” has become a political term that can be applied to almost any hobby horse issue.

The further reality is that even cultural Christians recognise that the Christian church is being bludgeoned to death by SJW’s. Disagree with the masses with the megaphones ie media, Hollywood, academia etc and you must therefore be evil. For many, this new religion has filled the void that may never have been filled by any proper understanding of the Bible, so removed are the majority in the West now from its teachings.

Unfortunately the Bible and EGW offer endless possibilities when it comes to proof texting whether it be by a left-wing SJW on Spectrum or a right-wing judgment Bible thumper on Fulcrum7.

Most of us are left trying to chart a path up the middle.
The broader cultural war is largely lost but pardon me though if I don’t waive the rainbow SJW flag and naively contribute to the demise of Western cultural values. Ask the “what would Jesus do question” every time but let’s not misunderstand the cultural Marxism feeding this new religion.

#117

Few points that need to be made regarding the conflation and “wordsmithing” which stipulates the term “spirit of prophecy”.

Namely the translation of equating EQW as the source in being the “defacto” spirit of prophecy"… which gets pseudo connected to the term “testimony of jesus”… which gets defaulted into the COA series, in broad terms.

Regardless of ones reading of Revelation, (it was written @ 2000 years ago… so the “term” even after "parsing it from greek - it’s a self serving “bait and switch” technique.

The only way to make it “stick” is if you include EGW into biblical canon = thus making yourself (in SDA parlance - by definition a cult) (CULT = a belief held which includes an extra biblical source with level or greater source/canon).

KEY POINT: I dont think that Revelation ONLY became instructive to the “people of the last days” – rather that it is instructive to all new testament Christians as a source of hope, the requirements of a HOLY God and what constitutes TRUE creator-ship and worship.

The social injustice points made here are good, but individual recognition of ones social responsibility is based in following Jesus, One cannot hold God pre-eminent without recognizing their need for Jesus, and his expectations for all to come into one accord.

Bottom line: The premise that one, if he holds a position or view or belief and/or understands a biblical view “not in accordance” with EGW’s writing… doesnt necessarily mean that person is “misinformed”.

Every individual must come into their own understanding of truth… the “settling into truth”… which in today – perfection based (expectations of “keeping the law”)… Alignment, sinlessness, and obedience, are viewed thru the “prism” of EGW view point.

I have several friends that are very liberal and conservative. Their ability to allow me to experience God on my own terms and me not “standing in judgment because they dont view things “in the way I do”” … this provides the framework of growth and understanding.

Said a different way - I can read all the EGW i want to and “agree” with what she has said and substitute it for “my discovery of truth” and make her the “last word” (alot of people dbl speak and say that since she agrees with the bible its the same – its not).

Every individual must discover God for themselves… thru study and/or God’s unique providence for them. If I am not allowing a person that “freedom” and discovery and the ability to reason… I am in effect stunting or preventing their “true discovery” of God.

Today I am looking for “signs” that i have my attitude and understanding of God’s purpose in my life prioritized.
To me that’s and “inclusion-based” process … NOT an “exclusion based” process. I am drawn to God’s character and to His holiness because of who He is and what He has done for me in HIS LDR-and Ascension, and priestly ministry – this INCLUDES His creatorship - and most importantly the author and finisher of MY faith.

NEWS FLASH: People actually met Jesus in person and decided not to follow. External prophetic signs and good to know… but most important are the internal signs that we as Christians… are “of the Gospel commission” and to me until the SDA church actually adopts that “big picture” of “inclusion” vs “sin and judgment based - exclusion” it will continue to make itself “it’s own fulfilling prophecy”… let’s agitate the devil so we can get the winds of strife going and go home… not really a good sales pitch there… rather… is my understanding of church inline with biblical teaching, does it agree with the gospel commission…?
Is my faith inclusion – based.

Sometimes when i look back over my life I cringe at the “exclusion” based processes, thoughts, and beliefs … that I have repented of.

with kind regards,

#118

Just to show how the political bent to a certain view is inserted into a statement with the modifier preceding the word justice here is an example from the Democrat response to the State of the Union Speech. Stacey Abrams’ said:
“America achieved a measure of reproductive justice in Roe v. Wade, but we must never forget it is immoral to allow politicians to harm women and families to advance a political agenda. We affirmed marriage equality, and yet, the LGBTQ community remains under attack.”

So Abortion is “reproductive justice”! Strangely enough that justice just happens to be found in the Democrat Platform. Where when writing about abortion they say: “We will continue to oppose—and seek to overturn—federal and state laws and policies that impede a woman’s access to abortion, including by repealing the Hyde Amendment” https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2016_DNC_Platform.pdf

Abortion is a controversial issue, though late term abortion is disagreed upon by the majority of Americans. As recent news has shown it is perfectly acceptable to the to the left and of course is in keeping with the Democrat platform. But few of us would say it is a justice issue. But when the word justice loses it meaning because it is just a political propaganda word it seems to be used all over the place.

4 Likes
#119

Maybe Spectrum will post an article on that.

image
5576F2AC-04B0-4EF8-A767-24E35E5E41AF.jpeg1367×1367 304 KB

I would.

Maybe more would join me if they weren’t afraid of being banned for a thousand years.

1 Like
#120

Interesting article and your comments to those commenting. I read through all of the comments following yours, nothing changed. I have been an SDA for a long time and this issue has always been with us. We will do anything to distract from it and do ‘loop-d-loops’ to try and disparage the concept you are trying to discuss. My personal experience is the more conservative the belief the less I hear about ‘am I my brothers keeper’ or ‘treat others as you would be treated’ or ’ the way you treat others is the way you treat me’. Christ wasn’t concerned about justice for those He ministered too, really? Healing both the body and the mind went together!
It gets tiresome when persons want to make it a political issue. Simply a ‘red herring’ attempting to shut down thinking on an important part of the gospel. It is not about ‘monies’, it is about us and our attitudes and behaviors towards others.

2 Likes
#121

I need to qualify my “I agree,” about Chuck’s “deeply inexcusable” part.

The Adventism of the 1970s and 1980s regarding “the Spirit of Prophecy” sent my family on a tragic trajectory. We have not recovered.

I take 100% responsibility for my deeply inexcusable responses to the course Adventism took in general, and towards me personally.

Every single day of my life I grieve and ponder in deep shame whether I dare excuse myself.

I can’t. It is a black hole.

What good does God’s forgiveness for me do, I ask myself, when I can’t fix the damage I personally did?

I can’t blame my parents for that. I can’t blame the church.

I have to take 100% personal responsibility, even though I’m helpless to heal what has happened.

What does one do when burdened with things that are simply inexcusable?

Pleading “mitigating circumstances” numbs the pain, but doesn’t heal the damage.

LLU ethicist James Walters admitted that “special pleading” for Ellen White was not tenable.

She did what she did. It has resulted in what has resulted.

Our appropriation of her as “the Spirit of Prophecy” is not entirely our doing. She made many sweeping, and I would say intemperate, statements:

Ellen White’s Claims

https://www.nonsda.org/egw/egw29.shtml

I very nearly lost my life in the wreckage of trying to sort out my religious and family situation. My son did not make it.

I’m inexcusable. It’s all inexcusable. We’re all inexcusable.

Unless…

Unless the Lamb prevailed to open the Seven Seals.

I don’t even understand that, but it’s all I have.

#122

Is there a Balm in Gilead?

1 Like
#123

Agreed, Professor Scriven! Unfortunately, it appears likely the ”vast right wing” of the SDA Communion is not going to easily find the path to restorative justice versus retributive justice. And that’s okay. Everything belongs, and everyone is at their own place on their own journey; however, let’s forget the notion of ”imminent.” This is going to take a while. What is it now? 1844 + 175 = 2019? Just saying. There’s a couple citations to ponder. 1SM 392.1, COL Chapter 24, paragraph 17 and Exodus 14:14. I’m okay with God’s work/creation and God’s timing and God’s transforming Grace. And a little Buddhist practice along the ’way’ won’t do any harm. It might even help a bit. Namaste :pray:, :butterfly::heart:️

1 Like
#124

Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?

Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her…
—Isaiah

…

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
—Revelation

…

The agencies of evil are combining their forces and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.
—Ellen White

…

Do not despise prophetic utterances.
—I Thessalonians

#125

Okay. Again, Namaste :pray:. :butterfly: :rose:

1 Like
#126

Namaste.

From a fellow syncretist.

Om mani padme hum.

image

1 Like
Books to Read on the Book of Revelation: An Annotated Bibliography
#127

We are so used to throwing money at every need that we don’t know how to respond personally. The Christian ethic is a personal responsibility - not only corporate. It’s about human outreach - not an adjustment in funding.

I heard of a pastor who decided to awaken his church to what it means to be a Christian. After the usual preparations, the pastor stepped up to the pulpit and began reading: “For God so loved the world that He gave us His only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish.” - and then he sat down. The organist began playing the postlude and the congregation looked confused. When it became clear nothing else was going to happen, they filed out. The next Sunday he again stepped to the pulpit and read the same text, and sat down. This was repeated the third week. This time people stayed around and began discussing what was going on. Small groups formed; and some made plans to go out and personally minister to their community instead of heading for the nearest “Pancake House”.

3 Likes
#128

I am no fan of the identity politics of today that seem to be causing more division than anything but then again the US has a lot to learn from other Western nations, not as regards the rule of law but equality of opportunity.

I am against manufactured equity per se, such as affirmative action but the US has been forced down that path due a wilful blindness as regards sharing the revenue pie more evenly in terms of health, education etc.

This need not be a race issue at all but when communities are still quite segregated, it is a joke to pretend that schools in one county are anything like the neighboring one. You can go on calling a more equitable distribution of tax dollars socialism but that missing education and health spend alone must be paid for 10 times over in running prisons and the cost of community violence, emergency medical treatment etc etc.

3 Likes
#129

Again, how else can anyone teach about God? Any understanding of God, experiential or otherwise is by definition theological. That’s what theology is.

#130

I dont recall calling equal distribution of tax dollars socialism. When taxes are necessary they should be used for equal benefit of all citizens.
If you have a specific issue in mind rather than a generalization I will be glad to attempt to answer Andrew.

#131

Thank you. I don’t recall including that factor in my piece I linked to earlier. I think it needs to be included. With her vilification of anyone who would question “the testimonies” (her writings), she did set herself up as immutable. Which is why, despite being cornered into denying that we hold her to be infallible, we aren’t as ready to actually say she is fallible.

3 Likes
#132

A nice way to start preparation day. In ”Spectrum” no less! A reason to hope! Namaste :pray:

1 Like
#133

This article is spot on, but the comments on it lead me to be concerned by the mindset of people in general and most specifically, Adventists. The end of Matthew 25 is self-explanatory. It doesn’t take a biblical scholar to parse and dissect its intent. Ezekiel 16 describes why God destroyed Sodom and should also be a wake-up moment for us as well. Sodom was destroyed because they did not take care of their poor, not because of sexual immorality, as so many mistake. “Stand out of the way lest I do worse to thee”, those are not sexual words. The entire incident about Lot and his family is about rape. Don’t be misled. If the human condition is unjust, unfair, inequitable, then the Christian must do what they can to rectify that condition, period. You don’t get a pass because you’re giving a bible study showing your charts and pictures of the beasts of Revelation and Daniel, or even proving that the Sabbath is on Saturday, while being unconcerned about the human condition.
If a crime is being committed and your automatic response to a situation is to suspect the person of color in the room, then you’re unjust and you’re a goat not a sheep. If you see someone of color in an expensive vehicle and your first thought is that they must be a drug dealer, then you’re a goat. If you are so uncomfortable sitting next to a person in church who is seated next to another person of the same gender who might be quietly holding hands, that you get up and reseat yourself then you’re a goat. If you’re concerned about the people that cross our borders whom you believe are unrightfully taking you or your family’s jobs, even though everyone in your family is too lazy to work in the fields or clean your house or do your yardwork, then you’re a goat. If you believe that separating a parent from their children because they crossed some manmade line, then you’re not just a goat, you’re a terrible goat. And, yes, if you think that building a fence between the boarders of Mexico and the United States is socially acceptable, you’re a goat. If you think that a woman who is working in a position that is the same as her male counterpart, but she is making 30% less pay for the same work is acceptable, then you’re a goat. If you feel people who have risked their vary lives to cross an ocean in an overcrowded, unsafe boat in order to flee an embattled country should not be allowed a safe haven from a brutal war, then you’re a goat. If you believe that people who dress differently, people who worship differently, people that speak a different language, people that come from a particular part of the world, are somehow, inferior to yourself and are not entitled to being safe, warm and well fed, then you’re a goat. I could go on but, unless you’re either numb to human suffering or your ego had been exalted to a higher plane, you should be getting the point.
It’s time every one of us start to be concerned as to whether we are sheep or the goats, and stop being so concerned about whether 2300 years after the Israelites left Babylon, that Jesus went from the holy to the most holy chamber in heaven. It wasn’t by accident that Jesus spoke about separating the sheep from the goat’s right after he talked about the 10 virgins, five of which ran out of oil. The oil, in large part, is empathy for our fellow man. Without it, you don’t have the righteousness of Jesus.
This country was once a beacon of refuge and safety for the downtrodden and marginalized. We had a lady who still stands in the harbor holding a beacon of light, and in her discourse, beckons to the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. I truly hope it isn’t time to take her down. My fear is that we are dreadfully close.
I am a white, heterosexual, male but that does not make me any more qualified for the grace of Jesus than anyone else. My lack of concern for those who are treated as less, must consume me and you and every member of the denomination.

3 Likes
#134

Hi Lindy,
Some of us might equally be concerned about the mindsets of those holding other views on this site. My issue with this topic was not “mainly” about exegetical points you mentioned, though on some I disagree with you… It is the inference that to differ with certain interpretations causes my mindset to be in question.
Believe as you wish but don’t say I am “immoral” or hint at my “mindset” if I don’t choose the State to be the “handmaiden” of fulfilling your ideas…or if I arrive at a logical interpretation other than yours.
Regards,
Pat

1 Like
#135

Patrick,
I don’t recall saying anyone was immoral. But I am pretty well settled on the notion that the judgment is exactly what Jesus said it is in Matthew 25. The last thing any of us wants to hear on that day is “I don’t know you”. How you interoperate that is you business.