On Rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy

(Andrew) #141

I don’t doubt this is true but then again there is a study to support every stance in education.

This is just excuse making though really. Like everything, there’s a continuum. You have to start somewhere with social change and education is one of the best places to try.

You only have to look at the facilities to know there isn’t parity though and I’d imagine great teachers aren’t excited by bombed out classrooms.

It’s easy to poke holes in everything but what would you suggest is the quick fix to broken fatherless communities? I would say do more to help that small percentage who may have the fortitude and luck to get ahead.

Or, assuming what you say is true, let’s spend the same amount on the middle class white kids school and see what the parents do. We could always send you in with copies of the study. :joy:

(William Noel) #142

OK, show us from scripture where Jesus got involved in anything like those issues.

(William Noel) #143

Yes, we need to get started somewhere. Are you ready to get busy in the ministry God wants you doing? I hope so because working with God is an experience like no other. Ask God to show you what He wants you doing and he will put a burden on your heart to point you in the right direction. He will be happy to give you opportunities. But you won’t see His power working through you until you’re working because that’s when you’ll need it. Watching God work through you is an amazing experience. There are times I come home from a project and I’m so tired I can hardly move, yet I’m so amazed by what I’ve seen God do that I’m filled with praise that I have to share.

(Lynden Williams) #144


Again, I must totally disagree with you. You see, in this country we are the government. That is why it is called a representative government. If we see the government doing something that causes people to suffer injustice, deprevation or injustice, we have an obligation to speak out. Your suggesting that we have no place speaking against injustice caused by “the state”. I totally disagree.

(Patrick Travis) #145

I don’t like property tax either. I feel a state sales tax for public schools would be better. Cou ties and municipalities dont seen to want that.
Personal responsibility to and accountability to me has to do with everything one does every country day.
Next issue besides schools?

(Lynden Williams) #146

And one more thing. When Jesus was asked, who is my brother? He did not single out fellow believers, he said “Those who are in need”. The world is our brother. We must help when and where we can. A Muslim is just as much my brother as a fellow church member. I’m sorry, but it looks like we will not find agreement on this. That doesn’t mean I don’t respect your right to disagree.

(William Noel) #147

Like a lot of others, I’ve been studying that parable for a long time to extract meanings from it. While not all translations word it the same way, I am challenged by Jesus saying “you wouldn’t even do it to the least of these, my brothers” to his condemnation of the goats. “My brothers” is a term of intimacy reserved for the members of one’s own family so the meaning I draw from that is that we are to focus on ministry in the church first. Why? Because ministering to those in the church who are in need strengthens the bonds of spiritual community in the church and makes the church a more desirable place for people to join. I’ve seen many people accept the doctrines, become members and then leave quickly when they found the church an inhospitable place. I’ve learned that a church that is ministering to its own members first doesn’t need to hold evangelistic crusades to replace the members being driven away. Instead, it is growing organically because, just as people who met Jesus would invite people to come and meet the prophet who had changed their life, members are inviting their friends to come and enjoy the blessings and fellowship they have found.

(Andrew) #148

Not sure I want to open the can of worms but healthcare. Either the US does not understand how insurance works or entrenched state issues and anachronistic structures seems to make sensible change impossible.

You can run basic primary socialised healthcare at the same time as offering private cover to those who want to pay. Do away with the job benefit system which hides the true cost and allow private insurers to offer coverage on a national pool basis. That’s how insurance works. I don’t understand how Obamacare was every expected to work with bizarre statewide or smaller pools of people, sometimes consisting of an aged demographic.

The true costs being hidden, risk not properly spread and poor primary care is why the US spends way more that everyone else for worse outcomes on average.
It’s great for Drs incomes though.

That’s my other rant for the day.

(William Noel) #149

Your persistence in disbelieving what I have been telling you reminds me of when I was a newspaper reporter and attended an event with Apollo 17 astronaut Harrison Schmidt. A man in the audience believed the lunar missions were a conspiracy and faked. Schmidt listened patiently to the man’s listing of reasons why he thought the mission had been faked and when he was done he smiled and answered, “Well, there’s just one problem with what you’re saying. I was on the mission.”

It may be hard to believe what I’ve been telling you. The difference is I’ve been there, done that and got the t-shirt. I testify about the loving power of God because I’ve seen it, felt it and been changed by it. Where is your experience with God?

(Patrick Travis) #150

You can believe what you suggest but He was speaking to those who were following Him, and there is no context for your interpretation. You are eisegeting,imposing what you want it to say, I suggest.
I would agree if you said all are our neighbor. But, not from this text…Jesus speaking of ths good Samaritan.

(Lynden Williams) #151


Now you’ve completely lost me. How did property tax supporting public schools get into this. As, obviously, like you, there are many things that our government or as you referred to is as “the State” does that we don’t agree with. Your welcome to speak out on such things. That’s why this IS a representative government.

But I find many of the arguments about who we deem as “Our Brother” and what responsibilities to people outside of our church body, are, at least to me, a way of satisfying oneself that they need not be concerned about “those people”. The ones who are not in our congregations. I agree with William, that we should take care of the members of our church family first, but that doesn’t lessen the responsibility to others, even though they are thousands of miles away, wearing a burka and attending a mosque.

(Patrick Travis) #152

I wrote an article in the GDA Journal In 1986 stating specifically I felt the employer tax benefit coverage was wrong and would create a two tier system which would be the modus operandi for politics to create a socialized system. I spared with Newt Gingrich about this at one of our study clubs .
It was Dems., Reps. big business and labor unions pushing the tax provision. FYI

(Lynden Williams) #153


Now your true colors have come shinning through. You red MAGA hat is glistening in the sun. Good luck on Judgement Day.

(Patrick Travis) #154

Well Lindy your attention to detail is a bit like like your exegesis like your failure to notice the post regarding schools was to a different audience.
Muslims are my neighbor but not my Biblical Brother. That belongs to the household of faith in Christ.
Judge not lest you be judged…

(Patrick Travis) #155

Actually Lindy, I am an independent that believes in limited government which is out of style today.
WRONG again.

(Frankmer7) #156

Jesus’s kingdom not being of this world does not mean it is to have no impact on the material world…or its systems. Ministering the redeeming love of God, as you rightly put it, can mean giving a cup of cold water, feeding those who are hungry, and letting people know of God’s love and forgiveness.

It can also mean trying to move government agencies to job creation for those in need. Or seeking to work with governments to halt slavery in its different forms. This is what Wilberforce did in early 19th c. Britain. It was the driving force of the African American civil rights movement in the 50’s and 60’s. Was and are these types of stances and work in the political arena not also ways of ministering the redeeming love of Christ?

While there is much that we as individuals and churches can do independently, in developed nations the church has legal access to influence systems of authority and power to help effect change in ways that Jesus and the early Christians never had in the 1st c. Roman empire. Movements such as those mentioned above sought, and still seek, to work on the systemic level to set the captives free. While the gospel contemplates spiritual liberation at its core, how can one divorce that from using all good means necessary to relieve the physical, financial, social, and emotional suffering and enslavement in which people live their lives in the here and now?

How would this not be part of Jesus’s focus in the world today?



(Cfowler) #157

Do you have a text for that? Thanks.

(Cfowler) #158

What a strange thing to say…


Really! So since history is the study of the past, no perception of the past outside of the academic discipline called History can be termed historical. Nor can any knowledge of calculation be termed mathematical outside of the academic discipline of Mathematics.
Congratulations on your bachelor’s degree.


Lindy, if only I could reach across the Internet and shake your hand for that refreshing piece on the sheep and the goats. Keep up the good work, bro.