On Truth, Sabbath-Keeping Bees, and Organizational Credibility

… ok


The founding mother of the church engaged in plagiarism, cover up, and denial. The organized church itself has turned a blind eye to it throughout its history. Iow, this type of behavior is in the denominational DNA.

Why should this be surprising?



According to @vandieman, SAD-ism is, in fact, genetic.

So as soon as a person-whether inundated from birth with SDA propaganda, duped by one of their Daniel and The Revelation Seminars, intimidated by their dissembling missionaries in the third world, etc.-is baptized in one of their miniature swimming pools, he can no more be non-SAD than a zebra can opt for polka dots instead of stripes.

I.e., once you are in, the only way to be out is to not be.

For me, this explains two things: first. why the denomination keeps counting people who don’t go to church, won’t pay tithe, aren’t homophobes, wear jewelry, like rock music, go to movies, aren’t afraid of Catholics, have renounced their baptism and asked to be removed from their church rolls, etc., as members in good standing.

Secondly, while I don’t have a shrink’s expert opinion on this, this also helps me understand why-while I honored my parents-I wasn’t overly fond of them.



How many of you all have seen the movie INCEPTION? The idea was to implant an idea so deep into a persons mind that they think it is their own. The idea becomes like a virus, it grows and grows. Soon the implanted idea becomes reality! Sounds like what happens when we want something to be true so much that we lose contact with reality. We have seen this phenomenon taking place over and over in religious thought and in the political world as well.


Like believing something supernatural or celestial occurred on 22/10/1844?

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Or like believing that something supernatural and celestial happened ever.

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300… rebels join the church in a single mass baptism SSD

500… rebels Adventist Review

700…rebels Adult Bible Study Guide Mission Story

I guess the GC must have a memo from EGW saying that Jesus didn’t mean it when he told his apostles they shouldn’t issue Press Releases about their good works….



How many do you think will be devout members after a year? 50? 100?


How many do you think understand what they were signing up for, in the first place?

Remember, these rebels were probably raised animist-or even worse, Catholic😳-so they probably have no problem with people who claim to speak with spirits, nor with purported mind readers like EGW who took so many fanciful flights to heaven that she probably qualified for frequent flyer rewards!



@timteichman the Philippines is 80% Roman Catholic so there’s a fair chance majority of the former “rebels” are of that faith tradition. However, let’s take a close look at our 3 SDA news sources reporting the same mass baptism event:

  1. Southern Asia Pacific Division (SSD) 303 former rebels out of 722 baptized new members
  2. Adventist Review: 500 former rebels and about 200 other people baptized
  3. AWR (Inside Story: Adult Bible Study Guide): 700 former rebels baptized

Go figure! :innocent:



I thought it was three different reports on three separate “miracles”…!



I’m not a reader of Spectrum, as it is generally consumed with synacism and bitterness. However, this article was brought to my attention. Interesting, as it focuses so much on accuracy and facts. It appears you missed one. The You Matter, You Belong, You are Loved seriese at Village Church, was not a ‘Coming Out’ Ministries event. It was a Know His Love Ministries event in coordination with Village Church. And… we don’t chage lives. We share our testimonies about what God has done in our lives, and what He promises to do for ANY life, LGBTQ or not. “Conversion” is not our job, but the work and precious gift of The Holy Spirit.

My heart is pained in thinking about how Jesus must feel in observing the needless rhetoric, instead of deeply diving into His Word, and experiencing what He desires for us. Unity, not diversity. Truth, not the lies and deceptions of Satan. Strive for togetherness, in “truth and love” grounded in the soverign, compassionate, patient, enduring Father, who proived us with His trustworthy Word. I believe it will be a far more valuable use of time. Peace,…God’s wisdom and discernment to you.

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On topic but not really - my friends were horseloggers who worked their animals six days a week, and it didn’t take long for the horses to get into the habit of avoiding the harness for 6 days, but running right up to you on Sabbath. I suspect they would have been the same on wednesdays if that was their day off, but I was impressed by their ability to learn that pattern.

So…how many leopards are you aware that have changed their spots? Unity, not diversity…how has that worked out in the world, red and yellow, black and white, all are precious…so the song goes. I look at the world around me and diversity is everywhere. Without diversity of thoughts and ideas, you have stagnation. Now unity in knowing that Christ came not to condemn the world but to save it and only asks us to believe in Him, well that would be a good thing!


There is no unity without diversity. That’s what the NT illustrates, the coming together into unity of Jews and Gentiles in Christ without forcing one to be like the other.

Maybe you seek uniformity?



It simply is not possible to mistranslate the statement “I didn’t come to bring peace to the world” as an appeal for unity.

(Okay, that statement of the absolute obviously isn’t absolute but this misunderstanding of Jesus’ purported quote seems pretty incredible, right?)

Either way, Jesus’ hawkish statement seems to have proven to be prophetic given that, throughout their two thousand year history, Christians have shown themselves to be a most quarrelsome rabble; an uncoordinated army of disaffected soldiers willing to turn on each other in the absence of any perceived external threat.


No, it’s unity in diversity . There is a difference between unity and uniformity.


Huh? Diversity in no way means a lack of unity. I think that could read “Uniformity, not diversity” or “Unity, not division”.

You’re not suggesting that a lack of diversity is a good thing, are you? Within a worldwide church?

What lies and deceptions of Satan are you seeing are here at Spectrum?

Well, “needless rhetoric” is a subjective evaluation. Maybe it isn’t needless? Maybe it’s good that church members discuss policy and theology openly, and challenge the church. Maybe shining the light on the corporate church’s activities is better than not?

Food for thought:
Do you think Jesus was pained then Martin Luther nailed the 95 Thesis to a church door to challenge The Church, calling into question many of its practices? Was He pained every time a church group split from another, often with the idea they had a better way, and so forming the hundreds of significant denominations that exist today? Was He pained when the proto-adventist Millerites insisted that they knew when he’d return, even though he told his followers not to make any such predictions? How about now, as the SDA Church continues harping that Jesus is coming back any minute now, against his explicit direction, as recorded in the Gospels?


Churches for the “Former Rebels” of Mindoro

Following the baptism of thousands of “Former Rebels” in Mindoro, Philippines, there is an urgent need to build churches in their 70 villages. We want to continue to encourage and nurture them as they get even closer to Jesus and begin to share their faith with others. Each church is only $5,000, but any amount will make a big difference!

“Former rebels” according to AWR is not exactly what government and local/national news sources mean by rebels. So?

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