One Love

(Barry Casey) #21

Thanks for the reference, David. It’s a fascinating theory . . . I’m not qualified to accept it or dispute it, but you’ve certainly thought it through.

(Harry Elliott) #22


I subscribe to the principle that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, without which we must dismiss the claims. IOW, we’re much better off rejecting all proofless claims than accepting any of them.

When the Fox sisters’ accounts surfaced, Ellen White testified that that she had been shown that the mysterious sounds were the work of the devil, (not trickery). Then a doctor reported to the newspapers that the rapping ceased whenever one of the girls put both feet on a cushion. EW immediately issued a testimony that she was shown that only some of the sounds were trickery.

Wrong again. Eventually, both sisters admitted making all of the spooky noises.

Bottom line. Caution is not a lack of faith.

(Steve Mga) #23

Hadn’t heard about the doctor reported incident.
All that is ever quoted is the 1st statement by Ellen about the Fox sisters.
Never heard anyone talk about her Second Testimony regarding the sisters.
Nor the discussion that the sisters were self-creating the “events”.

(Barry Casey) #24

I agree that caution is not a lack of faith. I don’t see the Fox sisters and Julian of Norwich in the same category, though. Julian’s vision or revelations, changed her life, occupied her spiritual reflection for years, and resulted in a written testimony that has inspired and comforted people for centuries. We also have an independent witness about her (Margaret Kempe) that testifies to her character in a time when it was remarkable for women to be literate and almost unheard of to actually write. Julian was the first woman to write in English. She wrote, she said, so that other Christians might be encouraged to love and serve Christ. I am reading her now as part of my devotional study each day and I’ve been touched by her absolute devotion to Christ and her care in trying to get in writing what was a transcendent vision, and to do so as clearly as possible. Her humility and her care for others shines through her writing also. When I find a source this spiritually rich, I’m not going to miss out on the blessings found.

(Steve Mga) #25

Barry –
Is there any “Best” translation into modern English?
the one I have is “Revelation of Love”, translated by John Skinner.

(Patrick Travis) #26

Nothing against Julian but every voice that cries for peace and love doesn’t make for peace and love. That also is an interpretation of the experiencer and viewer.
The false prophets of Isaiah’s and Jeremiah’s day spoke of love, peace and safety…as they did against most of the other OT prophets.
Satan isn’t deceptive by always doing evil, he can come in sheeps clothing. EGW’s view/complaint of spiritualism was related to also saying peace and love. GC. pp554,558. “God’s main attribute is looked upon as as love but denies His justice…” “Love and Charity are its main themes.”
I agree and give credit where credit is due.

(Steve Mga) #27

Back in the days of Wycliffe and Chaucer, middle of the 1300’s, it was
unusual for women to read, and more unusual for them to be able to
write. Most of the English population at the time were illiterate. Very
few [and these were young men] were able to attend schools.
A reason the Church did not like the Lollards [missionaries of Wycliffe]
is they were reading the Word to the people, and passing out the Word
on the written page. They were causing a Revolution. Allowing the common
person to begin thinking. When people Think, they ask questions.
We are fortunate to EVEN HAVE the words of Julian of Norwich that can
be put into modern English for us to meditate on, as she and her sisters
were able to meditate on and be blessed.

Something that is little known about Wycliffe in this day and age, is that
he Questioned the Mass [transubstantiation]. This made him particularly
unpopular with the Bishops who represented the Pope in England. This
was a Cardinal Teaching of the Popes of that age.

(George Tichy) #28

Didn’t we actually already offer 10% to those, and most of the GC’s senior staff signed in? :slight_smile:

(Kim Green) #29

It is a special category of those aforementioned. :wink:

(Steve Mga) #30

Kim, George, Elmer –
You will enjoy reading the Advindicate article on a group of SDAs
trekking and living in tents in the wilderness of the Southwest just
looking at ancient sand dunes, curious foot molds, petrified trees
whose ancestors still thrive in Chile and parts of the world.
The article discusses things that one cannot talk about in University
science classes to impressionable SDA young adults. Cannot be
stated in Sabbath School class discussion.
Would have to “cross their fingers” as they had to sign the “compliance
statement” forms to maintain teaching science.
Well written. Pictures.

(George Tichy) #31

Thanks Steve. I accessed the “millennial” Kevin Paulson’s site to take a look. But, honestly, I didn’t read much. I looked at an article about “Hypocrisy” that he wrote (just superficially) and I was assured again that I don’t want to read those guys anymore.

It’s pure legalism and “Whiteism.” I no longer want to consider that kind of literature. It’s become tiring after so many years of the same ol’ same ol’…

(Patrick Travis) #32

Dont have the slightest to what Paulson said; but, to me hypocrisy is not about making judgments but condemning others for the same thing “one” is doing. Just thought I would add that concept. If we are not entitled to judge while yet sinners how shall truth be known? We are not allowed to condemn because that is left to God alone.

(Steve Mga) #33

Wed evening at Taize at the Vineville Methodist church I was introduced
to the little book – All Will Be Well, a Julian of Norwich book.
Had a lovely quote that was used to begin our meditative service.

(Kim Green) #34

Love Julian…great book!

(Barry Casey) #35

Steve, the one I am best acquainted with (and used in this essay) is translated by Clifton Wolters and published by Penguin. It has a thorough introduction as well. There is a scholarly version from Penn State Univ Press in Julian’s original words and spellings that many editions rely upon. The one I just got is “All Shall Be Well,” a modern-language version of Julian’s revelations. It is by Ellyn Sanna, published by Anamchara Books. It is as lively as the original, but in contemporary language. I’m finding there are many versions of her writings. The thing to do, I think, is to find two or three that you like and then read them closely and compare them.

(Steve Mga) #36

Barry –
This last Wednesday PM at Vineville Methodist Taize I attend each week,
the leader read from “All Will Be Well”, and so I was introduced to THAT
one. Have ordered one for myself to compare the 2. Sometimes the “Body”
of the work is same or similar, but organized different, making one more
“readable” than the other.
I have 2 different versions of Discipleship by Bonhoeffer. The one is “more
friendly” than the other.

(Ikswezdyr) #37

I have read her material and been blessed and came away seeing that God has His messengers in every era. “All will be well” is God’s assurance until Christ comes.

Original sin is a debate for theologians. I find Paul saying he knows in his mind what is right but “the flesh” or what we today call feelings including hatred or wanting immediate gratification, etc keeps us making mistakes. There are many unanswered questions about what is sin in our modern lives. What about the mentally ill? and other infirmities that keep some from making right choices? No simple answers!