Ordaining Women: Why “The Survey” Won’t Help Elder Wilson's Efforts to End It

I agree that this needs to be put on the back burner until GC 2020. He can’t solve the problem on how he’s handling it. We need to focus on bringing people to Christ.


But Abraham, Lot, Paul & Silas still remained children of God. Neither Abraham nor Lot left the Jewish faith. Neither Paul nor Silas left the emerging christian faith.


Jeremy, do we know that Wilson will not “run” again in 2020? Are there term limits for the GC presidency?


Neither does each side have to stop being Christian. They can just focus on practicing their beliefs and religion in the way they want to without having to waste time and energy getting bitter and angry at each other. Being SDA doesn’t guarantee your salvation, so why should it matter whether we go our separate ways.

As the saying goes, “you find what you are looking for.” If the intent is to split the church, then reasons will be found to support the split. If the intent is to remain unified, then reasons will be found to support the unification. An example is TOSC which was initially formulated to find biblical reasons to prevent WO ordinations. None was found and out the window went TOSC. Paul & Peter came into a meeting of the minds because both were intent to keeping the emerging church unified no matter the cost, even undoing God’s “everlasting covenant.” Imagine that. Who are we to break up the church because TW can’t tell north from south?


What should we do when the GC is non-compliant? The on-going wrangling over WO is happening because of the rejection by some of gender equality. Rejecting gender equality requires one to ignore the Genesis story, where the man and woman were BOTH created in God’s image and BOTH equally blessed by God. There was no hierarchy. And Gen 3:16 was not a command.
We need a modern prophet to counsel the GC and its current president. Church policy should not be allowed to trump Scripture.


Who cares about a ‘survey’. The Evangelical Free Church voted no to WO in 1988, end of problem. Just when does no on any issue mean we should keep pursuing it until the minority gets its way. The World Church says no and no should be no, period!


What scripture? Another prophet is needed? My guess is one that ‘prophesies’ what You want to hear?


well, i can’t say for sure that TW is retiring in 2020…but i met both ted and nancy at the atlanta ATS not long ago (i also reconnected with ron knott and clint whalen, a former classmate and roommate, respectively)…ted gave me the impression that he was looking forward to retirement, but determined to stay the course of his san antonio tenure…

i actually think it would be great if TW accepted another term (i don’t believe there are term limits) because i think lessons learned from san antonio would make him an even better president…i also think there’s something to be said for continuity and stability at this time in our history…if he did accept another term, and completed it, he’d be the second longest serving president in our history, right behind arthur daniells (1901-1922)…but from TW’s descriptions of all his traveling, and just the way he described it, it did seem to me that he’ll be retiring…if that happens, i’m rooting for raafat kamal to replace him…I think it would be strategic to have a european mediate between NAD’s money and africa’s numbers…

The denomination has been relentlessly showcased as divided over women’s ordination by N.C. Wilson, Robert Folkenberg, and “Ted” N. C. Wilson. But, each have wisely only brought statements to the General Conference in session that could not be definitive about women’s ordination for Seventh-day Adventists.

In their collective vision in the role of General Conference president, this is as good as they could do. Jan Paulsen just as wisely decided not to bring to the General Conference another statement regarding women’s ordination for voting.

Perhaps the path forward awaits a G. C. President who will recognize and showcase the universal nature of the Holy Spirit already endorsing women in ministry in every Division of the church; a leader who will publicly acknowledge that a collection of study committees organized by every Division of the church could not muster a simple majority of committees to declare they find the bible forbids ordaining women in pastoral ministry; and a leader who will upon this basis simply offer that on the informal advice of his colleagues in the divisions of the church, it will be their collective informal policy going forward to rely on the Holy Spirit to continue to make divine will know with regard to women’s ordination Union by Union around the world, as provided for by their having been organized to directly answer to their constituencies in such matters.

And. Yes, it is not required that we wait for a new G. C. President. “Ted” N. C. Wilson is actually ideally positioned to be well-accepted in taking this path at any future Annual Council, including the upcoming one. Indeed, “Ted” N. C. Wilson in many aspects is uniquely positioned to act in this matter as James did in Acts 15 and with the same result. That result being the unifying of the church in its mission, apart from its practice.

Surely James must have had doubts, and the record is that he clearly came to realize that mission, not practice, was the unifying and empowering path for the fledgling church, and he was openly comforted by realizing that the Holy Spirit was being mediated directly rather than through Jerusalem and the Apostles … which brings us to the matter of revival and reformation in our age.


Elmer, I cannot bet against you because I am with you on this. But I will send you the $1.00 anyways…


Jeremy, anyone who has been observing the process about the WO issue could clearly see, from the beginning, what TW’s agenda was - and still is. I am puzzled that you have doubts about it.

Regarding “The Survey,” don’t we already know exactly what will happen if the results come against the GC’s “expected/wishful” results? The whole package will be sent to meet the TOSC package, wherever that is… And we know where the $1MI TOSC is, right? In the trash!! Because it didn’t come up with TW’s “expected/wishful” results.

I have no doubt in my mind that this “The Survey” will soon be disregarded. This is just another childish game now just using a new tool, a doll, trying to impress the crowds hoping that people will believe that there is indeed an honest effort at the GC to resolve the WO issue properly and fairly.

Really? Who are they thinking they are fooling this time?
For more enlightenment, just refer to the $1MI TOSC…


Your article is superb.

Regarding the quote above, History teaches us that most of the great advances in several aspects of human life actually occurred ONLY when some kind of civil disobedience took place.

There were always those who intended to block progress. Galileo, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King Jr., and many more examples tell us that sometimes just common sense negotiations are not enough to unblock paranoia, authoritarianism, or religious fanaticism. The millennials’ “Never Again” movement may well be the next example regarding the NRA.

Considering that the baby boomers in our Church have not been not able to accomplish certain major changes/upgrades so much need in our Church, and many are dying anyway, I believe that what we need is the SDA millennials to start getting more involved in Church affairs, even if it will require a “Never Again” movement in our own camp.

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Give back the LOCAL CHURCHES the power they are entitled to. This is what is missing, the main power staying at the local churches. If the centralization of power at the GC could be reversed, and power given back to where it belongs, most problems would be resolved. But this is not what the GC wants; on the contrary, they want to increase the centralization of power in the hands of the black suited guys upstairs. Therefore, the problems related to WO will continue unresolved forever.


george, have you met TW…he really isn’t the monster you make him out to be…and besides, he can’t force his will onto the church…there are too many intermediaries…

but if you feel a need to rail against a monster, rail against trump…i’ve just heard that stormy daniel’s is being physically threatened if she goes public…talk about putinesque tactics…trump is a dictator wannabe in the wrong country, and in the wrong century…


Just here on this site we have a crowd of those “prophets.” We don’t need another one…
By his own behavior we already know that TW will not listen to any prophet that does not support his anti-WO/pro-discrimination of women agenda. Maybe the rocks need to talk to him about it…


The concept of “world church” is a misleading concept aiming to create in people’s minds the idea that whatever the GC pursues is the Church’s will.

Every LOCAL church has the right to make their own decisions. If a LOCAL church prefers only male, or female, or both pastors, let them decide. This is the best that can be done. And, ordination is done in a local church, not at the GC Headquarters. Therefore, the GC should just stay out of it and stop fueling this conflict.


Jeremy, I don’t see TW as a monster. His behavior just shows us who he is, a frustrated authoritarian who has not been able to impose his biases on some people in Church, those who he probably considers to be rebels for being anti-discrimination of women. And you stick with him???

Regarding Komrade Trump, his next action will be to thrown in jail those people who refuse to write his name using capitalization… :innocent:


Isn’t it amazing how the church reflects the cultural climate of the day? We have a GC president who represents the views of his base/those who agree with him. He sees that as his role, maybe because he views those who disagree with him, and with the conservative wing, as being out of compliance with God?

There’s another president acting out a similar script… except God has no part in it for him. But, it does for his conservative, religious supporters, who’ve sold their souls to support him.

And we’re told that worldliness and creeping compromise in the church is about styles of fashion and music? The camel is already sleeping in the tent, and it has nothing to do with drums or women’s pants.




The Biblical meaning. Of church is —the. Called out ones. denomination refers to an organization the holds to a set of specific beliefs. Women are called out as well as men. The is nothing in the Fundamental Beliefs of Adventism that prohibits women the right to the pulpit. The problem is over policy that was man made, which has an obvious bias. We come together to learn and to encourage one another. Even Jesus referred to a mother hen Should not the flockneed mothering?