Oregon Conference Calls on GC to Comply with Tithe Policy


(George Tichy) #65

I thing it is great that you decided to participate in the conversation. I welcome you warmly!
Regarding your comment, I would say this:

  1. It seems that there are already enough people praying for them. How have those prayers worked so far? I know it is a fancy, politically correct thing to do to say “we are praying for them.” But, I am only praying for God’s will to be done at this time. Enough of those people’s wrong deeds.

  2. We need to pray for God’s intervention, not for His blessings to people who are promoting disunity and trying to change the authority balance that has been established for ages. Trying to steal the Unions’ authority, in order to transfer all authority basically to the hands of one person is wrong.

  3. The anger you mention is your reading. I have no need to be angry at those people because they do not and cannot affect my life in any sense, not even as a church member. I just bring up the issues as I see them and offer my opinion on how things could be changed.

  4. Even if I were angry, as you suppose, it would be strange for one to know if it is from God or not. This is not that easy to identify. But, saying that it is not from God sounds like a suggestion that it is from Satan. Did you actually mean that? I would be curious to know what is the basis for your conclusion.


(reliquum) #66

Kermatistés, moneychangers whose antics keep people (women, and the men sympathetic to their continuing subjugation) out of “my fathers house, an house of prayer for all peoples”, but you have made it a den of lēstḗs.

Suggested almost sardonically, perhaps this is the needed cleansing of the temple…just as it was 2 millenia hence, a place over run by power and profit, at the expense of the poor, blind, lame, and orphan or the widow (and her insignificant mite).

Imagine-the very people claiming, even humbly- inerrant remnancy, too surely claiming to be the 144,000, brought down by their own machinations. What was that about laying a trap for one, but falling into it themselves?
I recall a wise man said that, somewhere, once or twice, and also something about pride-even religious pride in ones religious power-being a sin?

Is Jesus now braiding a new cat-o-9-tails?
Will these moneychangers stay for the flogging-or run away as the first ones did?

Come out of her, ἐποιήσατε σπήλαιον λῃστῶν, my people.
My people hear my voice (and it may be rarely, if ever, the voice of him who portends to speak for me)-i see my children already gathering, without fear, even fear of grave consequences.


(Gary Gibson ) #67

So the issue is a matter of following the official policy? I’m not opposed to WO, but why do some conferences ignore or work around the policy that was voted at GC session? If Dan Linrud and the Oregon conference are so concerned about following policy, why did they banish my wife and I from all church properties in the Oregon conference and refuse to allow any church leader to discuss the issue with us in violation of the church manual and the Biblical mandate of Matthew 18? Why do they pick and choose when they want to call on policy that fits what they want?


(Tabitha) #68

I am absolutely with you. The OC is selective in what policy they want to follow and which not. One biblical directive that is clearly listed in the Church Manual regarding how to deal with discipline is ignored and shunning is practiced. This is not what we should be doing and it is all the worse when DR. Dan Linrud preaches about the importance of communicating with people in order to connect with them at his first, glowing sermon at Glafstone Camp Meeting 2017. Great sermon but not practiced. I am sure many like to pay their regular tithes away from the Oregon conference while this leadership exists. God is merciful but there is a day of reckoning and we will be answerable for our words and actions.


(Raymond Timothy) #69

I never seen local SDA church that’s outstanding in building or the people, in general they looks small, backwards and poor. I wonder why, when the Bible said the store house is it the local church or the Conference? Anything that we sent to the conference trust me you will never seen it again.
If you want to borrow from the funds to fix the local church trust me the interest will be higher than the local bank.


(Raymond Timothy) #70

The Best organized crime


(Billman) #71

Reading the OT carefully, some of the tithe was to be used for a big feast. Those in power would like to be the controllers of the big feast. But no, the big feast was put on by the donor, who no doubt, enjoyed it immensely.

Imagine what would happen to church growth if the church became the centre for the big feast. There would be hangers on everywhere. But we couldn’t have that, could we.


(Kim Green) #72

"why did they banish my wife and I from all church properties in the Oregon conference and refuse to allow any church leader to discuss the issue with us in violation of the church manual and the Biblical mandate of Matthew 18? Why do they pick and choose when they want to call on policy that fits what they want?"

This may be a legal issue that you are speaking to…with the info that you have given it could be anyone’s guess, Gary. Do you know why?


(Kim Green) #73

I had to laugh a little in your description of the appearance of the SDA churches. Yes, there is a huge difference in the way Adventists generally construct or maintain their buildings as opposed to more Mainline Christian (or others) churches. My theory is SDA’s feel that money should be for additional churches and that why build for eternity when Christ is just around the corner? Adventist buildings generally would not win any Architectural Digest awards! :smile:


#74

Policy Compliance is a major subject of financial audits. All else being equal, it would be a shameful failure on the part of the General Conference Auditing Service to not present this as a finding to a body that is required to cure it posthaste. A greater tragedy would be for the Lord to exact judgement on those found in policy-bending for personal gain. This is just crazy stuff!


(Harry Elliott) #75

Let’s have a show of hands. How many think that the guys who decided to (a) keep the gift in noncompliance with policy and (b) do it secretly, are going to provide an auditable record of where it went?

And return it to the conference? :joy:


(George Tichy) #76

Can you please describe exactly what this policy was and when was it voted?


(George Tichy) #77

If you see any hand, let me know… :wink:


(DENNIS HOFER) #78

I come from a family of several Union construction workers and several Freemasons. When I quit the union the first time and worked non-union, a new hire who started working after I did on a construction site took a keen interest in my personal business. It bugged me, but I was too dense to realize that he was a union ‘salt’, or ‘organizer’, trained and paid to infiltrate and sway workers to a vote for, or against, unionizing . . . which he soon did.

I’ve also overheard an electrician from a Freemason-run union local trying to recruit a potential new lodge member on a union jobsite by privately highly-recommending that he watch the Nicholas Cage movie, National Treasure. Another couple of union electricians I knew were recruited into some group called the ‘Sons of Liberty’ (?). They refused to pay taxes and the Feds visited the jobsite in one case and took them directly to court and a prison term.

If there are all kinds of infiltrators in the construction trades, how much more so must there be infiltrators in the SDA church which is involved directly in the front lines of ‘The Great Controversy’? It Is Written did an interview a few years back with Will Barron, who had been a ‘New Age Priest’. His superior got word from their spirit-‘guide’ that they were all to infiltrate the Christian churches. So he did. . . .

What disturbs me about ‘ASI’ is that the wealthiest members got wealthy by rubbing shoulders with financially and politically powerful people, and those 2 power-types are eagerly sought after by the predominantly male Freemasons I have known personally (Is Freemasonry, truly just a ‘religion’ ?) When I did an internet search on the business of one of those wealthier ASI members recently (using public and publicized information) I was surprised to see that their ‘foundation’ (and business ?) headquarters were on a street that they very likely named themselves, called ‘Mason Way’. Other nearby streets have names of people. Was that ‘Mason’ for which the street was named a ‘people’, or a power-hungry ‘religion’ ? Both ? (That’s the trouble with secret societies. Their secrecy multiplies public fears . . . intentionally ?)

Perhaps a GC oversight committee could be appointed to root out ‘infiltrators’ in the SDA church with ties to incompatible secret organizations like the Freemasons ? Or are they not as dangerous to the SDA church as openly-female SDA pastors ? . . . perhaps just wealthier.


(Steve Mga) #79

Gary –
Exactly WHAT WAS IT you and your wife were presenting at Oregon churches??
You made accusations, but did not disclose what you were presenting.


(Joselito Coo) #80

Having received information from GC members, they, the Oregon Conference ExCom, forthwith voted to contact GC president Ted Wilson by open letter.

There’s nothing in the letter that states whether or not they discussed the matter privately with any of the three top GC executives before putting it out in the open for everyone to see. Besides, isn’t there such as thing as “proper channels” as far as the bureaucracy is concerned? Could they not have at least taken it up first with the NPUC Ex Com, and on to the NAD?

Policy recommendations are for our guidance. At least, that’s how I’ve understood their function. They are not on the same footing, though some may contradict me on this, as our 28 Fundamental Beliefs.

No. This is not a Senate Confirmation hearing for a job interview, right?

Local Missions and Union Missions are required by policy to send a portion of the tithe they receive up the organization, to the Division till it reaches the GC. I know. BTW, the Korean Union Mission reorganized as a Korean Union Conference in 1984.

Interestingly enough, in 2015, at the San Antonio, TX, Gen Conf, the NSD president underscored the need for revival and reformation in the region. Reporting on the appeal by Chinese leaders for spiritual training in this regard, it resulted in the construction of two dormitories… etc… in Jeju Island, Korea::smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Go figure!


https://www.adventistreview.org/1518-26
Mission First in the Most Challenging Field
A report from the ​Northern Asia-Pacific Division president
Jairyong Lee, President


(George Tichy) #81

I will be glad to take your word for it as long as you provide information on when did the rules changed. Missions never sent any money to the bosses upstairs until they grew up significantly and became Conferences, and then they started enriching the GC as the other Conferences did.

But maybe this procedure changed and I missed it…


(Gary Gibson ) #82

Kim and Steve, I was not wanting to sidetrack this thread with our experience having church leaders cherry pick when to defer to church policy. Since you asked, they objected to presentations my wife and I gave on the primary prevention of child sexual abuse, which they noticed got a lot of views. Later we appeared on the Dr. Phil show and have continued an active ministry for people with pedophilia who have not acted on their attraction. We have not done anything illegal, but they only allow us to respond to their attorney. I understand this is a sensitive subject but silence is the friend of abuse and the problem will not go away by ignoring it.


(Gary Gibson ) #83

George, as I understand it the GC vote was to not move forward with WO at this time. The policy that is being ignored by church entities that have moved forward with WO under some other guise is that Seventh-day Adventists are a world church and must not fracture into congregationalism.


#84

So they must speak to someone in the top 3 positions in order to have spoken to the GC? In that case why do we have anyone else sitting at the GC besides these top three? The GC is comprised of the heads of Divisions and when you speak to any of these it is speaking to the GC.

As for following procedures, it’s a bit rich to make that claim when the GC is clearly and wilfully not following its own procedures. Procedures are fine… when they work.

You also state that policies are for guidance and are not equitable to our fundamental beliefs, if this is so then why are the compliance committees necessary? After all they are to enforce policies which are for guidance; they are to punish unions that are allegedly not in keeping with GC policy. If policy is for guidance then they are not absolute, so any action taken that is not in contravention to the fundamental beliefs should not be a problem… and then there is WO. So are policies for guidance only, in which case you have to admit that the compliance committees are a power grab, or are they on par with fundamental beliefs in which case it shows the GC is run by hypocrites?