Oregon Conference Calls on GC to Comply with Tithe Policy


(Elmer Cupino) #85

There is always a starting point, even for creeds and if church members like you and I do not register displeasure and take action, these recommendations mutate into eventual creeds particularly under misguided church leaders who are deluded and squabbling among themselves as to who is the “highest voice of God on earth.”


(George Tichy) #86

You should read again what the vote was about. It was not a Y/N vote on WO. Far from that. Look what is was:

“After your prayerful study on ordination from the Bible, the writings of Ellen G White, and the reports of the study commissions, and after your careful consideration of what is best for the Church and the fulfillment of its mission, Is it acceptable for division executive committees, as they may deem it appropriate in their territories, to make provision for the ordination of women to the gospel ministry? Yes or No”

For a good explanation of the case, by Jared Wright, check this site:


(Steve Mga) #87

Gary –
For many years the Episcopal Church has had a mandatory program called,
“Safeguarding God’s Children”. A three-hour program.
I HAS to [REQUIRED] to be completed EVERY 3 YEARS by anyone who is
involved in Children and Youth Ministries.
It includes both the actions by persons involved in Ministries, AND certain
essential needs of the environment to assure the safety of children and youth.
Even down to windows on all the doors of children and youth classrooms.
It is very specific. A wonderful program. I have had to take it 3 times already as
I help with a community youth program [tutoring underprivileged kids] for a
number of years.
You might look into that program. It is on DVDs.

The Seventh day Adventist church does NOT have NOR promote such a program
in any churches I know.
Another thing – The children and youth in Episcopal programs are told the same things
that are on the DVD’s.
So BOTH ADULTS and THE KIDS are taught Protection/Prevention Skills.


(Johnny Carson) #88

You don’t know that it happened in that manner. You don’t know how much time elapsed and what conversations ensued between the time of the revelation and the time of this letter.

So of course the proper course of action for any thinking individual is to suppose the worst and read into it things a person, by your own admission, does not know. Strong work.

See what I mean?


(Kim Green) #89

And there is where the problem most likely lies, Steve.

The local SDA church here had a small group of members that were meeting after church. Because of their particular kind of “studies” they eventually became disfellowshipped.


(Kim Green) #90

I am sorry that I did not see your response…in the future if you wish to let us know you are commenting to us both you can use @cincerity and @niteguy2.

I do understand a bit more about the situation you are now describing. I will completely agree that a program on Child Abuse and Prevention should be routinely taught to SDA children. I am also glad that you and your wife went on to establish your own ministry. However, it isn’t clear how they “objected”…how did you come to know about this? If you don’t wish to respond…this is fine.


(Johnny Carson) #91

I don’t know about the rest of you but from grade 1 on in my SDA church school experience there was a very active, weekly, education program for us kids on addictive substances, alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, LSD, etc. We were thoroughly indoctrinated on the deleterious effects of substance addiction and abuse.

The point is that if the church from the conference educational level can organize this kind of education program for their elementary and academy age kids they can also organize an effective sex ed and sexual abuse ed program geared to the maturity level of each classroom as well yet I’ve served on school boards as well as been school board chair and I’ve never heard of such a program either at the local or conference sponsored level. I don’t think it exists.


(Kim Green) #92

We did get a little info- but not like what you had.

Over 10 years ago, there was a whole SS lesson study for the Earliteens on the topic of Sexual Ed, Abuse, etc. The hullabaloos that followed that was incredible…I still feel like the SDA church is still in the Victorian age in regards to these topics.


(Johnny Carson) #93

A good and worthy idea, but mostly symbolic in its nature. We can now rest on our laurels saying to ourselves that we did something… Once… A long time ago, but kids keep getting born, grow up and by conservative measures 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys are still being raped and otherwise sexually violated.


(Kim Green) #94

It actually was good…but the uproar was too great. Adventists really need to get serious and have a bonafide church sponsored program for children. Only one parent raised an objection to the SS material/lesson, but not one of them actually pulled their child from the class!


(Johnny Carson) #95

No need for that now, Kim! We’re the remnant. We have the truth and God on our side. What could possibly go wrong?


(Cfowler) #96

Mmmm…shall we count the ways? :wink:


(Johnny Carson) #97

A study was done many years ago in which the prevalence of sexual abuse among various religious groups was investigated. The study found that the more fundamentalistic the religious group was, the higher the incidence of sexual abuse of children within the ranks was.

I was shown the results of the study by a parole officer acquaintance, and was shocked to see Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses ranked higher in the study just above Roman Catholics. In short sexual abuse in that study was shown to be more prevalent among those and other fundamentalist groups that among other religions or the non religious.


(Kim Green) #98

Best indicator of future behavior is what has already happened in the past. Dismal thought.


(Kim Green) #99

Yes…and the aforementioned groups also have issues with getting treatment for drug abuse as well.


(Cfowler) #100

True. Whether this goes hand in hand with being more fundamental, but the groups that were mentioned, SDA, LDS, JW, are also groups who are more isolated and segregated from society. It’s so much easier to abuse children when this is the case.

Another thought I had (and which we have seen in the SDA segment) is that people in the group want to hide/cover up anything (not just abuse) that they think will hurt the image of the group. That seems to be more important than anything.


(Johnny Carson) #101

Yes, the all important protection of the pack or herd. Above all, cover up, save face, victimize the victims and protect the perpetrator. Yes, indeed.


(Gary Gibson ) #102

Steve, actually the Seventh-day Adventist church has a program just like that, which my wife and I have been trained in. We take it a step further and help people with pedophilia so they won’t become offenders. It appears that some church leaders Care more about money than preventing sexual abuse. My sister and other girls were sexually abused by one of our teachers and we’re threatened by the president that their families would be ruined if they sued the church.


(Frank Peacham) #103

I wonder how it is possible for the GC to return 100 million dollars from 10 years ago? I sure most of it is now gone. It is next to criminal to hid the income from the local conference so as not to be required to surrender this vast fortune. If GC leaderships has so little regard for policy, one can only wonder what other activities they may be hiding.

I wonder if tithe payers had known that the GC had received such a large donation they would have requested an independent overside accountant. As it is, do we know anything about how much money the GC receives and how it spends it? Is it wise to trust anyone with vast fortunes of money?


(Gary Gibson ) #104

Kim, sorry I’m new to this forum, don’t know how to use it and don’t want to sidetrack the thread but I do want to answer your question. When I was 12 I realized I was attracted to younger girls and thought all guys were. I knew I did not want to cause any child the kind of harm that five of my siblings had suffered but there was nobody I could talk to about it. I’m not exclusive and am happily married with three children and ten grandchildren.

In 2010 our former foster daughter alleged that I molested her. I know that I did not and after two thorough investigations I have never been charged, although church leaders may assume I’m guilty. But why would they banish my wife. She would no doubt be allowed to attend if she divorced or murdered me, but she has stood by me. We established the Association for Sexual Abuse Prevention (ASAPinternational.org) and get calls for help from all over the world. I am friends with many mental health professionals and have over 200 in the US who now “provide services for non-offending pedophiles.” I have prevented many children from being harmed while the action of the church causes many children to be harmed because those who may be at risk of sexually abusing children are even more afraid to ask for help. I am willing to suffer spiritual abuse for Christ’s sake because it has made some people aware that help is now available. Attraction does not mean you have to act on it and abuse is not inevitable. I just wish my wife would be allowed to attend church.