Pacific Union Conference Votes Opposition to GC’s Compliance Committee System

  1. Praying for those leaders will be of little, if any, effect since they are not interested in recognizing anything. At least this is what they have been revealing for quite a long time now, that the only interest is to centralize the power on the top and to perpetuate discrimination of women.
  2. Change of leadership appears to be the only hope for this Church no to split. Therefore, I am afraid it’s now a little bit too late.
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HaHa, sure. I can do it via Skype, since I am in Vienna… But I will be there to help those poor people from the GC that are being hit by the assignment to be one of the 40…
For some reason I am thinking of “Ali Baba and the 40”… :innocent:

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Agreed. But from a redemptive perspective our first hope would be for leadership to have a change of heart and reverse the dangerous path we are on. This must be our prayer. This movement is the apple of God’s eye and he will see it through whatever must happen. It may require leadership change. God only knows at this point. Meanwhile we pray earnestly that those tasked with attending the fall meeting of the church and making decisions will have the courage to do the right thing.

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Ali Baba and the 40…as analogies go…not a far stretch :grinning: Enjoy Vienna!

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Bad that I missed Spectrum’s 50th, but had the trip planned for a long time. But I will do my best to attend the 100th… :wink:

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hi dave…i was wrong about any connection between PUC and chico…chico is apparently a NCC issue, since it’s north of san francisco (i only know where san francisco, los angeles and san diego are when it comes to california, :wink: )…spectrum has done some good reporting on the chico situation…here’s a sampling:

here’s coverage on the hollywood situation, which is a PUC issue:

glendale city church is probably the most well-known inclusive church in adventism…it’s inclusiveness has been positively commented on in the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/socal/glendale-news-press/opinion/tn-gnp-intersections-a-church-in-glendale-stands-out-for-its-inclusiveness-20150708-story.html

not long ago, it senior pastor wrote a critique of coming out ministries:

i think it’s this inclusive approach to LGBT in PUC and elsewhere that is likely what the LGBT compliance review committee proposal is responding to…

my hunch is that progressive adventism has been on the receiving end of so much misunderstanding from conservatives, there may not be a whole lot of trust left between what egw calls the “two parties” in the church, 2SM:114…but i think an objective reading of the purpose of the compliance review committees does reveal the opportunity for non-compliant entities to make a successful case for their non-compliance…

personally, i don’t believe PUC isn’t seeing this…i think it’s more likely that they’re putting together what they hope will be successful appeals through the compliance review committees even while they’re announcing their intention to vote against them…

it’s only september 15…annual council, entitled “Faithfulness to His Prophets”, is in battle creek during October 11-17…there’s time…on the other hand, it may be part of CUC’s strategy to keep its cards close to its chest…

katrina, how do you explain egw, who was ordained of god to be a prophet, and who accepted the salary of ordained persons in our church…do you think she should have listened to her brother who told her, at the beginning of her ministry, that she would disgrace the family name if she ever got up on a pulpit to preach…

egw certainly preached throughout her 70-yr ministry, sometimes to congregations and audiences of thousands; she certainly taught, and continues to teach through her books; and she certainly exercised authority over men by reproving them, even in the case of GC presidents, all of which is contrary to
1Tim 2:11-12, and 1Cor 14:34-35…

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Superb program!

Worth giving up one week of psychiatric practice to fellowship with my community of believers.

Inspiring. Missed you. Have fun in Vienna.

@cincerity

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Though this thread is on another topic, I just have to reply to that last bit here…Thank you!!!

As one who is disabled, married to one who is disabled, I concur!

Over ten years ago, we were told ‘you are welcome to attend services, but you cannot bring your service dog back with you into any portion of the church building’. Having a dog in the church destroys the sanctity of the sanctuary’, ‘If my ----- were to attend and see a dog, they would never come back to church again, because they are afraid of dogs’ ‘You can just tell us your medical needs and we’ve got a lot of medical professionals in our congregation, we’ll take your service dog from you at the door, house it off-site, and when the services end (no opportunity for fellowship meal there) we’ll return the dog to you and you can be on your way’. My membership resides now in the Conference Church which means - I belong nowhere.

And then there’s the fragrance issue for some of us, ‘well, you can’t expect everyone to stop wearing perfume, cologne, use unscented laundry soap and fabric softener, not have scented candles or air fresheners, etc. at the church’.

Forget that ‘fellowship’ meals are downstairs in many places - places that have no wheelchair ramp or elevator to get to them…forget that plush carpets impede wheelchairs; forget that asking folk to turn around and shake hands can be a terror to a visitor that just wants to be nameless and faceless as they slip into and out of church due to the abuse they have suffered in war, in their home…forget that the service can be overwhelming to those with sensory challenges like Autism…shame on us that fingers and tongues wag at the child that has a meltdown accusing the parents of bad parenting, telling them that they need to stop sparing the rod and spoiling the child…oh and this is just the tip of things!

How about the seniors that have been faithful in their attendance then illness strikes, and they drop out never to darken the church doors again? How many are forgotten after a month or two of absence?

And so much more!!! Yes, disabled are truly NOT wanted in many Adventist congregations. Thank you for mentioning that! Someday, I hope this too, will be a topic brought up and discussed and worked upon. Blessings!

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Hello sister!! What you said is so true, and so tragic. How we forget the compassion that Jesus Christ spoke about, and showed while here on earth.
God bless you and your spouse.

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I recommend that the GC watch Invictus,it is a very good movie, and I can with a clear conviction, that everything depicted with regards to attitude of both sides where true. Maybe they can learn from Nelson Mandela, because he understood that keeping the Springbok as an emblem of the National Rugby team, would not go well with the majority of South Africans, but he kept the emblem. He never saw an symbol as an stumbling block, but rather as a building block.
Now, just because Nelson Mandela followed his consciousness, doesn’t mean he did not face opposition. There were many who were very I of what he had done. In the end, South Africa won, but the country won as a whole, because the minority believed that they were also part of this knew South Africa.

So what is the lesson, the GC must be focusing not on the negative of women’s ordination, but on the positive. If I am not wrong, there are only ten commandments, and nothing on ordination. Which means, this church must be focused on the great commission, and that is the good news found in Jesus Christ.

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Amen, thank you, Carlo.

May we truly go to the highways and byways and offer Christ’s healing to the blind, the lame, the sick, deaf and walking wounded that Jesus died for. And may we lay down our arms, that there is no more ‘deadly friendly fire’. Blessings!

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Katrina, I’ve continued to think about what you’ve shared. Since you’re a human being, the Bible says you are a sinner. How would you feel if someone was speaking about you and said, “I perceive you are sinning. I just want you to know that I hate the sin, but love the sinner”?

Another thought about women’s ordination: Please consider that perhaps what Paul said about women speaking in church was something like bylaws for the early Christian church. And this was appropriate for its time and place. Katrina, the rules by which the early church operated are not commandments from God. And what was needed in the early church is not necessarily what we need now.

You are focused on women’s ordination as being wrong. But why do you ignore other things the Bible has said? How do you pick and choose personally what still applies and what you can ignore? I doubt you can. So I urge you to learn about which directions in the Bible are timeless, and which are no longer needed or applicable today. Dr. Alden Thompson’s book, “Inspiration” is excellent for studying that.

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Jeremy - Don’t think that the Hollywood Church, Chico Church, or Glendale City Church are the only Adventist churches where LGBT people are being welcomed. There is now a far longer list of Adventist churches across the U.S. where LGBT people are accepted as members and church officers. I’d say the three churches named are “out of date” examples. I will not name names of others for their safety.

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I’d suggest number is unknown.
I would bet my bottom dollar that folks with every type of “sin” imaginable are doing so in nearly every single church, worldwide. I suppose the lgbt crowd may be a bit more honest than the far too common over-huggy old lech deacon types, the wine-bibbing pastors wives, the skimming treasurers, the prideful “perfect ones”, the rakes and scamps, the cheats and liars…

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i’m sure you’re right, peter…and no doubt the extent of this accommodation is why the GC feels a need to set up an LGBT compliance review committee…if the conservative sites i’ve seen are any indication, the GC has received numerous complaints over the yrs…

Looks like you are having an awesome time…enjoy! Maybe another year I can attend.

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Jeremy, this is indeed the question.

“I don’t believe in Ordination of Women”
Katrina, could you explain your thoughts as to what the ordination and recognition service of Ordination is and:
a) what are those in attendance doing when they pray and lay on hands with the Ordination candidate?
b) what happens to the Ordination candidate when it is done?

It would be most helpful if we could, in more detail, your understanding of this important service.

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Just curious, Do you read any book(s) written by any woman?

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actually, dave, I’m noticing now that while chico is in NCC, NCC is a conference in PUC…PUC’s territory doesn’t lie just south of san francisco, like i was thinking…