Pacific Union Officials Decline Inclusion in SDA Yearbook; Stand in Solidarity with President Sandra Roberts

(George Tichy) #199

It becomes really bad when you are fighting yourself… and you lose the debate!
(80% discount for these cases!.. LOL)

By the way, don’t add more Scriptural evidence to the list you provided about “female spiritual headship.” It may become so overwhelmingly disturbing to the discriminators that @elmer_cupino may end up with way too many patients to see on an emergency basis… :wink:


We’re not talking about WO, remember?

(George Tichy) #201

The motivation (sick psychological need) behind domestic violence and discrimination of women in church is the same: Power & Control issues. Nothing else.

Everything else that is said is just a disguising mask, to hide the real problem behind a curtain that sometimes looks “spiritual” but is actually nothing but a mere beautiful statement :sunglasses: with no honest or concrete content.


Adventist Orwellian Newspeak Dictionary (a work in progress):

  1. The Biblical Order of Gender Authority
  2. Spiritual Male Headship
  3. Female Spiritual Headship
Many cults actually create their own words and languages which they use to psychologically condition their adherents in their beliefs and doctrines. Cult leaders strive to control the communication environment of their followers. They censor the literature their followers read, deliver speeches that only contain and reinforce the cultic terminology, and attempt to filter out words their followers may hear from external sources so they will become immersed in the cultic vocabulary.

How Playing Good Christian Housewife Almost Killed Me

Our Christian sect encouraged a mindset in which dad was supreme patriarch. It led to extreme emotional abuse.

“So,” the woman at the domestic violence shelter asked me, “if he’s such a great, loving husband and father, what are you doing here? Why do you need a protection order?”

I tried to explain that, for some reason, despite how hard we were both trying to live according to Christian principles, our home had become an oppressive, miserable place in which none of us were happy, and it felt like we were all losing our minds.

The problem was, everything I knew about relationships had been so completely redefined by Christian teachings that I did not have the language to name the abuse.


So I went to therapy. One of the first things Deb, my counselor, showed me was a “Power and Control Wheel” which is a tool for helping abuse victims identify ways in which they are being manipulated, exploited, mistreated and enslaved.

As Deb went over each aspect of the Power & Control wheel, I began to realize that, yes, of course, all of these elements were present in my marriage … it’s just that we had different names for these things … we had chapter and verse to teach us that power and control is actually good and godly. We called it “Agape Love” - it’s the kind of love which God has for His creation …this was the relationship we were supposed to use as our model between husband and wife.


As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

—II Peter 3:16


I agree. They’re fooling themselves and others, but that’s all it is, narcissistic abuse. That’s why I posted the Power and Control Wheel graphic in my post above.


Yes, exactly, George.

Look at Bill “Headship” Gothard’s stubborn refusal to take responsibility: even when he has one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave, he’s threatening to sue:

Statement from Recovering Grace regarding the lawsuit against Bill Gothard and IBLP

28 March 2018, 01:30

On February 26, 2018, the former plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Bill Gothard and the Institute in Basic Life Principles released the following joint statement:

Due to the unique complexities of this case, including the statutes of limitation, we have made the difficult decision to voluntarily dismiss our lawsuit against Bill Gothard and The Institute in Basic Life Principles. We want to make it abundantly clear that by dismissing our lawsuit at this time, we are not recanting our experiences or dismissing the incalculable damage that we believe Gothard has done by his actions and certain teachings. Nor are we disregarding that his organization chose to protect themselves instead of those under their care.

Shortly after the release of this statement, Bill Gothard went on a verbal offensive against the former plaintiffs and against Recovering Grace, releasing statements through both his Facebook page and a website run by a self-described paid member of his legal team. One of these statements exposes private medical and deeply personal family information about a former plaintiff who released a personal statement after the case was dropped—information gleaned by Gothard’s legal team as part of the discovery phase of the lawsuit and by Gothard personally during counseling sessions with the plaintiff several years earlier.

In the wake of the lawsuit dismissal, we have received reports that Bill Gothard and his team have attempted multiple contacts with former plaintiffs, their family members, and their friends in order to pursue “reconciliation” on his terms. There are also reports that he has threatened further legal action against the plaintiffs if they refuse to meet with him and if they continue to speak out. Additionally, the aforementioned self-described member of Gothard’s legal team has contacted Recovering Grace, hinting at legal action if we post or share anything else on our Facebook page and, presumably, on our website.

Power and Control.

False shepherds have their portion.

Why We Will Aways Have Segregated Conferences
Evil: Ancient and Modern
(Greg Cox) #205

I asked you first, show us in scripture where female spiritual headship is located?

(Tim Teichman) #206

I did for him:

(Elmer Cupino) #207

Please review my posts. I said there are no bible texts supporting male or female headships. Now tell me your supporting bible texts that require no mental acrobats, contortions or gymnastics. Please!

(Greg Cox) #208

Brother - I asked for scripture on female spiritual headship - you provided personal commentary;

All are one: Did you bother to invent a time machine and go back and tell Paul this? Perhaps he can use your superior intellect.

Deborah: she was not over the priests, was she.

Huldah: she was not over the priests, was she.

NT: there are 6 examples of females being called “deacon” by Paul, but none of them was head over a church or spiritual community. And you know this.

You are trying to draw examples of these holy women’s actions that simply is not there. There has NEVER been a female spiritual headship position in ancient israel or the early church.

(George Tichy) #209

Ah Cassie, the P&C Wheel!!!
I used it a lot when I did treatment of DV. Actually, I can say that I explained that to people hundreds of times. Very important tool, but one that perpetrators often challenged in some way, un til they finally started “getting it.”

(Greg Cox) #210

Timo, there is much commentary from the posts here. If it is editorial, so what. If it is scripture, then it is axiom. The fact remains, we have no scripture providing principle on female spiritual headship - none. We have reports of women prophets and civic rulers and deacons and so forth. If we as a collective body choose write scripture in our image then all sorts of ridiculous theories are born. No thanks, I’ll pass on that.

(George Tichy) #211

Ah, your list of biblical evidence doesn’t count for their dialogue. @elmer_cupino is required to provide HIS list, otherwise. “no money, no honey.”…
It really sounds crazy, but… hmmm, it really is!!!

(Greg Cox) #212

the unions and conferences do NOT have the right to deviate from the plan, this is solid. They are not individuals that “feel” their way through life with ambiguous policy. They are beholden to operate within set standards - this is clear.

(Tim Teichman) #213

That is not accurate. a) I am not your brother, and b) I quoted scripture at length and added my understanding of it beneath each quote.

RE: Deborah: she was not over the priests, was she.

Yes, she was. The priests reported to the ruler. She was the ruler.

RE Huldah: she was not over the priests, was she.

Yes, she was consulted as the authority by the priests on behest of the king who wanted to know if the scriptures were authentic. She determined that they were, which they accepted.

RE: NT: there are 6 examples of females being called “deacon” by Paul, but none of them was head over a church or spiritual community. And you know this.

And what of it? Lack of an example of something in the bible is not prohibition of that thing. If it were, many of the things we teach could not be taught for that reason.

RE: You are trying to draw examples of these holy women’s actions that simply is not there. There has NEVER been a female spiritual headship position in ancient israel or the early church.

I am not doing that. I gave several examples of female spiritual leadership, including a female head of state, when the head of state was also the head of the religion and an example of a female Apostle who was a leader in the church called out by Paul as extraordinary.

(Greg Cox) #214

ok, you have spoken your witness.

(Tim Teichman) #215

I have no idea what that means.

(George Tichy) #216

Maybe you are not supposed to have an idea… :wink:
And I believe I won’t be able to help you with this one, so do not make an appointment.
Find a good palmist, this could be more elucidative… :roll_eyes: :innocent:


I’ll bet you did use it a lot in domestic violence situations, George! It is a powerful tool.

And the reason I’m stressing the sinister Adventist Orwellian Dictionary is because these people are using Scriptural language in very devious, manipulating ways to exert power and control, and I do mean Mind Control.

This language makes deep cognitive impressions, and over time, it creates a person’s cognitive and social environments, and becomes as unremarkable as water is to a fish.

Finding the way out is devastating, and can be fatal, because everyone around you tells you you’re being evil, that “rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,” etc.

The fact that this Adventist mind control will be reinforced by large factions of Evangelicals only deepens the deception.

Ironically, very ironically, this is what Adventists have been teaching about the end times all along:

An abusive, authoritarian religio-political power will seek to coerce people’s consciences.

This will sink the “unsinkable” Seventh-day Adventist Church, beyond all doubt.

(Elmer Cupino) #218

Wouldn’t you agree the best way out of this dilemma is to change the Working Policy then enforce it? Do you know why it hasn’t been done? Because it can never be done without destroying the church.