Perspective: Can a Church Survive if It Gives Up Its Sectarian Identity?


Secret History of the Jesuits by Edmund Paris for one.

I agree that the schools should be more vocational in nature and more focused on the Bible, but I must say that calling our church “sectarian” isn’t very appealing to me and is totally untrue to the vision of EGW and other early church leaders.

Also your statement that we are not growing globally is false. While it may be true in america and europe, the church of south america, asia, and africa is growing by leaps and bounds. This is due to the layman evangelists and bibles workers that are working their hearts out for the mission of the church. Also in africa the pastors have sometimes 20 churches under their care, proving that more pastors is not the answer to church growth.

I believe that the decline in church membership in North America and Europe is due mostly to modern outreach practices creeping into our church. Things like rock music, hyped up church praise teams and evangelical megachurch preaching methods. These have really turn the young people off.

We don’t need entertainment in the church, we need truth; living truth that feeds the soul. Not pleasing fables that lull us into a secure stupor.

“SDA Orthodoxy” and “sectarianism” are words some might like to use, but they do not reflect the true character of our church movement.


Thanks, that’s my job. :stuck_out_tongue:


Then I suppose you must have right?

(Andrew) #246

And you are good at it! :+1:

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #247

You may want to recommend another criterion. This one seems virtually identical to what Mormons teach:

[The Lord’s words] “But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.” Doctrine and Covenants, Section 9:8

(Andrew) #248

No, I haven’t. But I don’t make a global statement to say that there cannot possibly be anything better than I have read.


Which lord is being talked about? Our Lord or their lord?

And by the way, that quote has everything to do with feelings and nothing to do with knowing that it is truth. So no, I do not recommend that statement.

(Andrew) #250

Orangeman, you were the one who said too much education is a bad thing. Therefore you must be using emotion as your barometer for truth.

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #251

I’m glad you recognize the dilemma.

But, how is it different from what you claimed? How is what you did recommend a method of knowing?


No other writer in modern history was given such an indepth view of Jesus, God’s government, or the end time events as was Ellen White.

(Andrew) #253

There you go again Orangeman. Another global statement.


Intended to be so. For it is the truth! Tell me of one author in the last 150 years that was more inspired and gifted than EGW?


The books do speak to your soul. Not in a lovey dovey way, but in a way that makes you know it has to be true. Feelings are out of the picture.

(Andrew) #256

Tolkien, CS Lewis, Corrie ten Boom, M Scott Peck, Peter Vardy, Viktor E Franki, Rudyard Kipling…some of Oscar Wilde . Etc

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #257

You’re avoiding the central issue. What you’re saying is that they speak in this way to your own soul. However, others claim that they know “it has to be true” from reading different prophets. What can you offer them to help them know what you know—versus feeling?


CS Lewis was a known free Mason, Tolkien was a catholic luminist… I could go on, but sufficient to say none of those are anymore inspired then you or I are.

P.S. Anyone who reads those books long enough will be inevitably lead into sceptical thinking and views.


I would say “Read the books for yourself and decide if they be good!”

(Andrew) #260

That’s the answer of someone who hasn’t read and has prejudged out of hand. But that is you. I think it’s crazy, but despite your views, you seem like an ok person to me.


I’ve read C.S. Lewis, but I thought he sounded fishy in the way he talked. More research proved who he was and that was it for me. Don’t even get me started on Tolkien…

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #262

Fair enough.

Not true or fair.

We can decide right now to agree to disagree. I don’t believe John Todd & am not interested in discussing his claims.