Perspective: Can a Church Survive if It Gives Up Its Sectarian Identity?

(Kim Green) #283

OrangeMan…you are steeped in the language and attitude of the “Self-Supporter”. I have read the same books and have been blessed spiritually by them. Just because some of the authors mentioned may have been Free Masons or whatever- doesn’t mean that they were not spiritually led.

(Elaine Nelson) #284

“I’m a product of the self-supporting movement.”

Who would have guessed ? :wink:

(Kim Green) #285

No, Andrew…that would require a BA and seminary potentially. OrangeMan would not qualify with his/her views on education :slight_smile:

(Aage Rendalen) #286

Orange, I suggest you get yourself an education and learn to distinguish between claims that are credible and those that are not. And dismissing C.S. Lewis because his books smell of Mason-ite, is not something you would want to say aloud. My father-in-law, a life-long Adventist, was unable to read Lewis as well. Lewis was an academic and his writings require a certain familiarity with the stuff that a liberal arts education is made up of to make sense. Not all of Lewis’s arguments are good, but they are not the kind of arguments you would object to, were you to expose yourself to them.

You don’t have to go to college to get an education, but in or out of a formal school, it requires you to read extensively and expose yourself to history and the arts and the various philosophies and creeds that have guided people throughout human history. At present, you have read so little both of theology and history as to be unaware of how limited your perspective on things is.


Hello OrangeMan,

When first coming to Christ I, too, got into researching these claims. And it was quite fun, and exciting, at the time. The thing is though, the more you research this stuff, the more you go down that rabbit hole. Its never ending. Ask yourself, how much of what you believe can you prove? I mean, really prove?

We are told in 1 Tim 4:7 “Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;”

The SDA bible commentary tells us about this text:

The less attention the Christian minister gives to speculative ideas, the more service he will do for all concerned. The Master Shepherd does not intend that His sheep shall become experimental animals on which religious fanatics may try out their ill-conceived theories.

This is good, sound advice OrangeMan.

(Andrew) #288

Ok then, he’s a mechanic.


Exactly. I plan on starting one soon, but I’ll leave the spectrumites to guess away on the details :smile:


I would not be sticking up for the Jesuits. The way they butchered and massacred the Croatians during the second world war should make anyone sick.


Very true. I just don’t want to read and listen to people who may have been involved with groups like the masons. Why take the risk when there are so many other good books to read?


Yes Sir I am. Try and build one of these:

(Andrew) #295

You know, the inventor of the internal combustion engine was a free mason.

(Andrew) #296

Very nice. By the way, I am a little uncertain whether some of your texts are tongue in cheek. Or whether you are genuinely serious.


Yes he was. To bad though. Even Kellogg got into that garbage.


I’ll keep you guessing :smile:

(Kim Green) #300

He may not genuinely know himself, Andrew. lol

(George Tichy) #301


I have met several several of them in my life, and I have to say that not a single one was a bad person, or who did bad things. All were honorable, respectful people. They all were always involved in several charities, and concerned with other people’s well being. I could never see how they could possibly do things that hurt others.

Based on what I saw, I have been always a little suspicious of what I heard about them from some SDAs. It seems that there is a social paranoia about them among Adventists. I wish their accusers could produce some FACTS before denigrating their character. I know that EGW wrote something about them, but if we focus on hidden issues, well… I am not sure we are the proper ones to accuse them… :wink:

We should know them better before just “shutting the door” on them…


Then that would also include William Miller. I doubt very much you would say that about his written materials, after leaving the organization. Also, if I remember correctly, Walter Veith was involved in dabbling in such practices, at one time. Do you not read, listen or watch his material? I doubt that too.

Just because someone was involved in Freemasonry, or outright Satanism, does not now mean we reject everything they will ever have to say, as if they’ve been damaged beyond repair. Going by that logic, someone who has gone to prison, should never be trusted. Regardless of the miraculous turnaround they may have had in their lives. You see, OrangeMan, when you really look into this, its not so simple as you claim it to be. And btw, I have never read any of C.S Lewis’ books. But that has nothing to do with him having been a mason at some point.

(Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13) #303

Of course, OrangePoe.

(Aage Rendalen) #304

George, the first conspiracy theory to gain traction in the US after the Revolution was anti-masonic hysteria. The Masons were suspected of being behind everything that was wrong with society because of the secrecy they shrouded the organization in. Once people tired of beating up on the Masons, they went for the Catholics. Into the 20th century, Protestants were convinced that the Catholic church was the devil’s storefront and that the Pope wanted to claim the US and subject it to the Inquisition. (The same people today pass laws protecting the people of Oklahoma and other GOP-led states from the imposition of sharia law!). I’ve often wondered why Americans are so vulnerable to conspiracy theories. This is not something you normally see in the developed world.

(Aage Rendalen) #305

Now, that would have been quite an achievement, Orange, given the fact that the Jesuits didn’t exist when the Papacy declared war on the Waldenses. But this is not about facts, is it?