Perspective: Can a Church Survive if It Gives Up Its Sectarian Identity?


(George Tichy) #306

OMG!!!.. ROFLOL

Aage, again please, …what does the word “facts” mean anyway?.. You know, English in not my primary language… :wink:

By the way, people should be careful when referring to the Jesuits, because they may inadvertently offend those Jesuits on this site that are here spying for the Pope!!! … Serious business. There is even a lady here that has also been a Jesuit for about 92 years, believe me, a true troublemaker! :slight_smile:

@ageis7


#307

Be easy guys, his new.


#308

Really? Where did OrangeMan write that?

All he wrote was that the Jesuits massacred the Waldenses. You added to his words, aage. And worst yes you mock him while doing it. Seeing as you like facts; lets take a look at those “facts” shall we:

Ignatius of Loyola founded the society after being wounded in battle and experiencing a religious conversion. He composed the Spiritual Exercises to help others follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. In 1534, Ignatius and six other young men, including Francis Xavier and Peter Faber, gathered and professed vows of poverty, chastity, and later obedience, including a special vow of obedience to the Pope in matters of mission direction and assignment. Ignatius’s plan of the order’s organization was approved by Pope Paul III in 1540 by a bull containing the “Formula of the Institute,” as described below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus

The question now remains: were there Waldenes after the year 1535-40?

Although the Waldensian church was granted some rights and freedoms under French King, Henry IV, with the Edict of Nantes in 1598, Catholic persecution rose again in the 17th century, with an extermination of the Waldensians attempted by the Duke of Savoy in 1655. This led to an exodus and dispersion of the Waldensians to other parts of Europe and even to the Western hemisphere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldensians

Seems not.


(Robert Sonter) #309

Tony,

Out of curiosity, was Charles Emmanuel II (Duke of Savoy) a Jesuit? My brief attempt to find a connection here didn’t return any results. While I’m sure @aage_rendalen will respond himself, I think he was reacting to the claim that the Waldenses were butchered by the Jesuits - a claim I’ve not been able to find any support for.


#310

I honestly have no idea Robert.

My main concern was that aage added to the words. He made it out to seem like OrangeMan believed that the Jesuits were around when the Papacy “declared war” on the Waldenses. But those words were never written. And, lastly, that if there were Waldenses still around in the mid 17th century, then OrangeMans comment was not really wrong. It was twisted, to make out to seem factually wrong.


(George Tichy) #311

Tony, I can’t see @aage_rendalen adding anything to his words. The only point that needs to be shown is that the Jesuits butchered the Waldenses. Orange didn’t offer any reference to support his statement. I don’t know the answer, and don’t have time or interest to find it out.
But, between you, @robert_sonter, Aage, and @OrangeMan I am sure you will come up with the correct historic facts and I will learn it all without making any effort myself. Very convenient! Now, go to do the research work! :slight_smile:


(Pauluc) #312

I think you have it. He is the incarnation of Shelley the Republican


(Aage Rendalen) #313

Since the tail end of this string no longer has anything to do with article it’s attached to. let me clear up a few things about the Waldensians. This was a movement started by Peter Waldo in the 1170s, in Northern Italy. Like Francis of Assisi, Waldo was a rich man who gave away his wealth and formed the group called the Poor Men of Lyon. This happened at a time when the RCC gloried in its riches and power, and self-abnegation was not the kind of theological emphasis appreciated by the powerful papacy. In 1215, Waldo’s movement was declared heretical and violent persecution broke out. This is the persecution that EGW writes about in Great Controversy. The 1200s AD. Not a Jesuit around for another 300 years.

In case the facts are of interest, here is the article in Wikipedia about the Waldensians:


(George Tichy) #314

Here a brief, friendly description on the Jesuits,

In 2013 there were 2,467 Jesuits in North America. Of those I bet about 15 were Spectrumites… same as today I guess! :smile:


(Elaine Nelson) #315

Some here may have heard of a few Jesuit schools in the U.S., known for their excellence:

Boston University
Fordham U.
Georgetown
Notre Dame
The University of San Francisco, my alma mater.


(George Tichy) #316

Oh Elaine, that’s where you got your Jesuit Certification? Nice! :wink:

I got mine at George-town… Graduation was in Saint George, Utah… :slight_smile:


#317

Or perhaps we should join them too… :wink:


#318

My mistake, I meant to say Croatians. They were dealt with very badly in the second world war; specifically by the Jesuits.


(Aage Rendalen) #319

Orange, I don’t know if you realize it, but your issues have become a ball in Spectrum’s pinball machine. After dealing with serious issues, it’s entertaining, I concede. And now you give us the Croations, Catholics all of them, as victims of Jesuit persecution! The animosity between Croations and Serbians, who speak the same language, is based in the fact that Serbs are Greek Orthodox while Croations are Catholics. The Croatian scandal was that during WWII, their Ustasha militia fought with the Germans and perpetrated horrendous crimes against the Serbs. They certainly had no beef with the Jesuits, since they were Catholics. So why don’t you come up with another ethnic or national group that supposedly was persecuted by Jesuits. Let’s see if we can light up the pinball machine.


#320

Oh, OrangeMan. Why didn’t you just stick with your first comment. It was not factually incorrect. To assume that the society of Jesus wasn’t involved in any persecution of Waldenses would be regarded as ludicrous. And everyone here knows that. Regardless if we can show documentation of such events occurring or not.

And of all people, you write that to aage, who I knew, once I read your comment, would take you to the cleaners (no mercy for you OrangeMan). Which really puts an even bigger stink up my noes. To try and save face he mocks you even further, rather than show some kindness.


#321

Your a real piece of work aage, you know that. Just be glad my first post didn’t work.

Your acting like a bully.

Rather than show the mistake in the comment, you try and save face from your previous shifty, word adding tactics, to further belittle the new guy. Do people here forget that at one point many of you fell for all kinds of things; things that cannot be proven. And have you forgotten how hard it can be sometimes to join a new group. Do you not see the types of emoji he uses which shows he’s trying ever so hard to befriend people here?

Apparently not.

(Tony, it’s a bit murky whether your charge is accurate, but what is clearer is that things are escalating - including your counter-charge of bullying. So why don’t y’all either move on or, if you want to pursue this topic more, double-down on reviewing each of your comments for civility before pressing the button to post. And we promise - in the friendly spirit of a speed trap - to patrol this sub- thread with additional intolerance :slight_smile: . - website editor)


(Aage Rendalen) #322

I agree with Web Editor. Let’s reserve our ire for issues of substance. And Tony, if you go back and re-acquaint yourself with Orange guy’s words of greeting to the Spectrum community when he showed up–as well as with Newton’s Second Law–you will at least understand why it was likely that he’d get some push-back. I’ll leave up to you to determine whether I’m a bully or not.


(Kim Green) #323

ROFL…is there an official Jesuit Club that I have missed, George? Too funny.


(George Tichy) #324

Tony, is that actually you writing this thing?Doesn’t sound like you.

I don’t see Aage bullying “the new guy.” Aage built on the top of what “the new guy” wrote, thus the historic facts surfaced. But apparently you had a problem with it.

Why are you going Bananas just because Aage corrected Orange’s facts?
Yes, better to move on, this is becoming a fruit salad… :slight_smile:


(George Tichy) #325

Kim,
There is a bunch of us, I mean, sorry, … of THEM who are actually special envoys from Pope Francis, spying here for a long time… (I am not sure whether @elmer_cupino already signed up…)

Actually, a few years ago we had a true Catholic Priest participating. If I am not mistaken his name was Father Jim (not sure about the name though). Oh man, those were real fights. In the old days, when the good fights were allowed… :wink: