I routinely will myself toward optimism. It is easy to be pessimistic, not just lately but chronically. Recently, however, as an ethicist, I find it difficult to speak with any hope of being persuasive. For instance, in a Spectrum Sabbath School post in December , I was buzzing along writing about "character" in relation to the story of Job. “Lying,” I wrote, “was something that everyone knew was wrong and that eventually liars are marginalized in human society.” I stopped myself mid-sentence. How could I write this when someone who has been proven to be dishonest was elected to the highest office in the land--the single most powerful position on the face of the earth?
I take it you voted for Hillary and are unhappy Trump is POTUS.
There is News. and there is FAKE News. There is a lot of FAKE News out there.
In people’s MINDS, IS there a Difference between one who is just a Messenger of God, and one who is just a Prophet of God.
What would be the differences in people’s minds?
Asking this in relation to Ellen. Perhaps Joseph Smith. Others.
Are BOTH – Messenger, Prophet – equal?
Does a Prophet TODAY, have the same standing as Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Joel, Amos,Obadiah,Zephaniah?
“What is Truth?” it was standing right in front of Pilate, and he knew it. The most vile and corrupt man, by his own admission, now occupies the White House and the majority of vocal Adventists applaude the result. The White Lie has reached limits unknown until now.
One thing observed from different perspectives yields a spectrum of appearances and interpretations.
“Post truth” and “alternative facts” are self shielding condescending insults against people who do not ascribe to the same polarized personal beliefs and associated emotional intensity. Regarding “objective facts”, the devil is always in the details, not infrequently involving data bias, drawing conclusions beyond the scope of the data and confusing ones simplified beliefs with the complex multifaceted objective reality.
Unfortunately the “two party” establishment and the entertainment business segment called “news” play the polarizing game and most folks are mesmerized by their chosen brand-name. “Hope and change” was one brand-name. Time will tell if “Great again” is just the other establishment brand-name or something more independent. Whatever direction the wind blows, a positive mental attitude and inner peace, joy and thankfulness can make for better sailing.
I have always appreciated Mark Carr, even back to his youth ministry days in Virginia, and never more so than now. Thanks for a soulful and sound treatise on ethics and the imperative of carrying “the mind of Christ.”
Hi Robin,
I can imagine why you feel so passionately about this issue. It, however, is not behind my comments and neither is it necessarily relevant.
Thank you for your thoughts,
Mark
Indeed, sharethelove, “a positive mental attitude and inner peace, joy and thankfulness can make for better sailing.” This is what I consider the most important thing I said here, or at least wanted to say. This is the direction that optimism compels me to take.
Please refer me to your published piece concerning Obama’s lies and I will take you at your word.
Short of that I think your confusing optimism with delusion.
Thanks, mtskeels9496, for this. You may have also noticed my words, within this column, “Of course, some will say, he is a politician and all politicians lie and we can quickly enough point across the partisan divide and see liars on both sides.” So, your point?
Your angst. Your entire premise is morally indefensible. Or did it only suddenly occur to you after 8 years of Obama and a 2 year campaign by Clinton that people in office have (gasp) lied?
We could of course go into moral relativism were no doubt the thought that Trump thought he had more people at the inauguration than he did drives you to distraction but Obama saying Bush raising the debt ceiling was a failure of leadership and then doubling the national debt doesn’t even raise your eyebrow. How about when Obama said If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor…and you would save 2500 bucks a year on your Heath care premiums?
Your entire premise is in the part that occurs after the part you quoted me. [quote=“spectrumbot, post:1, topic:12941”]
Millions of Christians (and many Adventists) willfully chose to look past his lies. I am confused by this. I am confused by those who do not tell the truth and by those who believe the lies do not matter.
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So you admit you are confused, but apparently only recently so. Hence your problem.
Lying doesn’t confuse me, “post truth” and “alternative facts” do. And no, nothing new about lying…My premise is that in the face of these things, I would rather lean toward optimism, inspired by Jesus and his life rather than pessimism. What is interesting to me is the feedback I’m getting in response to this column…So I point to politics and politicians as reason for pessimism…According to your argument I could have written it during the Obama administration as well. Sure enough, I’ll accept your premise. But my point is about clinging to optimism. It appears to me that you and several others would rather fight about politics/politicians than linger on the positive influence of Christ; that’s not my point. Thanks for the fight…I mean response. As for what is or is not “morally defensible,” might you point out to me how is it that you know what is or is not “morally defensible?” Oh…sorry…there I go again, wanting to fight rather than communicate about the amazing love and grace of Christ toward all of us, regardless of political orientation.
Dont blame me. Your the one who chose the example of Trump when Obama has 100x more documented lies.
You say," Post-truth is an adjective defined as "relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief."
which by definition is the classic example of the Obama administration.
Pastor Carr, given the bio posted with this article indicates you’re an ordained minister in the Adventist church, I must say that I’m confused by your statements here.
Because if you’re an Adventist pastor, then you must believe that God is as much a liar, as is Donald Trump. If it’s OK for God, then why not for the Donald?
Allow me to briefly explain my line of reasoning here. Take yourself back to the beginning of the Adventist story - the inception of the Millerite Advent movement. God called William Miller to preach that the second coming would happen in about the year 1843. It was wrong - that was never going to happen. But God needed a modern day remnant movement, and to get that, it was necessary for someone to preach the “false truth” (aka. alternative facts) that Jesus would come in 1843. God called William Miller, and Miller, after much deliberation and soul searching, accepted the call.
We all know how that ended. The date was revised a couple of times, ultimately being determined as October 22, 1844. And Christ didn’t come. But the remnant movement God wanted to create, had been spawned. Still, they were not yet ready to go into full-scale evangelism, so God lied again. He told His prophet Ellen White (in quite a number of visions) that nobody who hadn’t accepted the Advent message before October 22, 1844, could now be saved. So the merry band of Adventists spent the next approx 7 years just shoring up the faith of the “pre-1844” group, to ensure they remained faithful and didn’t fall away.
Eventually God decided to come clean, and break it to Ellen White that they now needed to embrace sinners from outside their group. So the Adventists started to evangelize. But they couldn’t yet accept that God actually loved sinners, so God had to keep lying to Ellen White, stressing the importance of a strict observance of not only the law, but a myriad of dietary and lifestyle practices. God told Ellen that he hated sinners, particularly self abusers, and that self abuse (otherwise known as secret vice) was responsible for a host of horrific health ailments.
Of course I could go on and on. Apparently God lied to Ellen at least up until 1888, as although she was in constant communion with Him, it was not until then that she even came close to understanding the realities of the plan of salvation and God’s gift of grace.
I don’t believe God is a liar, and at least partly because of this, I’m now a former Adventist. But I find it incongruous that an Adventist minister can write the article you’ve written here, while still an Adventist. I’m not all that upset that Trump is POTUS (though I’m actually Australian), because while he’s not honest, in my opinion he’s more authentic than his opponent (she was both extremely dishonest and was also sanctimonious).
And yes, I happen to believe there’s no such thing as an honest politician, which means that ultimately you have to choose your poison, but you need to do so, pragmatically.
Your confusion is more profound than you think. Trump is not a politician. That’s the whole problem for both Democrats AND Republicans (ostensibly, no difference). Politicians are born talking out of both sides of their mouths - and yes, they all lie; but we have selective lie detectors that operate only on those we oppose. When politicians lie you don’t know it until it’s too late, after the damage has been done - (like Obamacare and the Syrian “red line”). The reason everybody, except those who voted for him, don’t like him is that he owes nobody any payback. That’s unheard of for any politician - no meaningless appointments to grant - no bills to push through. This means that the control freaks have lost their power. This is what got him elected (as well as Hillarie’s basement server and her brand of lies that reach way back in time). Besides, I don’t know what Trump “lies” you’re tall;liking about. All he ever said was he 's going to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN". Give him a minute.
Have you read your Bible lately - things are not going to get any better around this world. “Truth” has always been on the scaffold. The problem with truth and what we like to call "facts’ is that they depend on who is defining them - and based on what - didn’t you ever read George Orwell’s "1984"? Talk about a spirit of prophesy!
I’m surprised things have gone as well as they have. Mankind has managed to actually make some progress in science - but even there, the control is in the hands of those who hold the purse strings when it comes to what research gets done. When it comes to human relations, agendas abound and power and control rule the day.