Prophets in Conflict: Issues in Authority — Book Review

Her eloquence, and the uplifting and rewarding nature of her writings must be credited to the authors she copied from. The beautiful gems, unique insights came form form the borrowed material. An example of I saw statement:
Ellen White (1827-1915): “Mount Zion was just before us, and on the mount sat glorious temple, and about it were seven other mountains, on which grew roses and lillies, and I saw the little ones climb,….and he said, you must go back to the earth again, and relate to others, what I have revealed to you” (Letter From Sister Harmon, Dec. 20, 1845, published in The Day Star, Jan 24, 1846).

Esdras (1st&2nd Cen AD): “I Esdras saw upon the mount Sion a great people, whom I could not number.” “And as many fountains flowing with milk and honey, and seven mighty mountains, whereupon there grows roses and lillies, whereby I will fill thy children with joy….then the angel said unto me, Go thy way, and tell my people what manner of things, and how great wonders of the lord thy God, thou hast seen” (2 Esdras 2: 19, 42).


Do you wear rose colored glasses?

As I study, I encounter dates and I do not brush them off as insignificant, I look to see if they might be of value.

From my personal Bible study, in September 2012, I tweeted that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013. He resigned in February 2013 and he was not pope after the spring of 2013. In the 14 months before he resigned, I had tweeted 8 tweets (before the fact) that warned that he would not be pope in 2013.

I encountered the question of “How long is a Judgment Hour”? and studied it until I learned that based on millennial time, the duration of a judgment hour is 83 years 4 months. Thus, the Judgment Hour of the dead was from 22 October 1844 until 22 February 1928. The papal beast in Rev 13 was dead “Babylon is fallen” for that entire hour. Then during the Tarrying time, Babylon was revived by Mussolini in 1929. And Babylon was alive on The Day of Atonement 14 October 1929 for exactly 83 years 4 months until 14 February 2013 when pope Benedict resigned at the end of the Judgment Hour of the living. We are now in the final sealing time!

As it was in the Days of Noah, he went into the ark for 7 days. A day is a year in some Bible prophecies. From 14 February 2013, the 7 years counted to 14 February 2020. On that very day a bomb cyclone formed in the Atlantic Ocean when 2 major hurricanes merged and attacked Iceland and turned toward Europe. 14 February 2020 is also the very day that the WHO declared COVID-19 a global pandemic.

I identified 2 April 2020 as a significant date, but did not have the right event before the fact. And then there was 17 May 2020, the day that God’s people were to receive a blessing. On that day I saw that the global conference that Pope Francis had tried to convent in May 2020 was called off because of COVID-19. God had intervened to prevent the work of the 3rd angel from being compromised!

And since you mentioned it, I was impressed to study Ezekiel (he wrote of a vision In the 6 year on the 6 month, on the 5th day) when he saw a vision that linked to the elders in Jerusalem worshiping the sun. Ezekiel also tells of the 7 men with weapons beginning at the House of God and killing all that do not have the special mark on their foreheads.

Coincidentally, this is the 6th year since Pope Francis made Pope John-Paul II a saint. You may recall that Pope John-Paul II blasphemed God in his apostolic letter Dies Domani, in which JPII declared that Sabbath is Sunday. The 6th year of JPII’s sainthood, the 5th day of the 6th Jewish month (6 6 5) falls on 25 August 2020. Coincidentally, linking JPII to Sunday worship and 6 years 6th month and 5th day makes me wonder if the 666 Mark of the Beast will link to 26 August 2020? So I am watching to see if congress passes their next stimulus package on 26 August 2020 or if President Michael Pence is to in office by then?

Jesus told us to watch. And Daniel tells us that the wise will understand, while the wicked will do wickedly. So I am watching and sharing even if it does not make me popular among those who do not value my pearls, I’ll just be mindful of how I care for them. I have plenty to do with my you tube show (666 Mark of the Beast Tell All Show). So, I can read the articles here and comments when I have the time and not get bothered by those who do not understand dates and who would prefer to ignore them.

The Investigative Judgment in Heaven continues until Jesus stands and says “it is finished…”
The little Time of Trouble has begun. The “Time of Trouble” will begin with Michael Pence at the helm. And it will morph into the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” soon enough ready or not!

You must assume that she copied everything. Thus, you assume too much.

I did not assume, I found it through my research. So it’s a fact!


If I understand your reply to my comment: “You must assume that she copied everything.”
You have researched it and you are saying that EGW copied everything.
You are saying that she did not have an original statement that she could claim as her own.

Or you read my comment quickly and misspoke in your reply.

Thanks, @2humBaby.

I’m gonna call this one, too, because it casts an aspersion on me, as it pertains to one of the main activities of this forum. :smiley: Because of this, I want to make sure that there’s complete clarity, here.

You can debate with me. You have no evidence to show the truth of a contraposition. Nor have you debated with me. Anyone can debate with me. People, here, do it all the time, and I welcome it. I welcome it from you.

You may not be able to win that debate :slightly_smiling_face:, and, especially if it’s about racism, you probably won’t win.

By “win,” I mean that you probably are not going to be able to raise an argument that I have not already heard, plenty of times, and that I will not be able to show, by a logical, explanatory process, to be flawed.

On the contrary, if I raise an argument on race, you may try to show that my argument is wrong. But I am probably going to be able to counter-respond in a way you may not have anticipated, and that renders your argument as being incorrect. This is what tends to happen, here, also.

I say this is the case, not because of any particular brilliance I possess. I think it’s because, in these Spectrum fora, the majority of people who post on racism are white. Because they are not victims of racism, racism, to a great extent, seems not to be a preoccupation of theirs.

I mean this, in a somewhat similar way, to how people with a lot of money don’t have to worry about it. When was the last time Bill Gates wondered if he had enough cash to cover a purchase?

Meanwhile, those without a steady income, hand over their debit cards tentatively, because they’re always unsure if they have enough.

Similarly, non-white people, like me, think about racism a great deal more than, it appears, white people do, because we’re constantly interacting with it.

I’ve even taken to saying, “White people don’t have to think about racism…because they have Black people to do that for them.”

So, you are in error: You can debate with me, about anything, at anytime, as long as we agree to do so.


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April 2nd was your first guess, assuring us the above about Pence. Then,… ooops, it’s some day in May, and oooops again… But, according to your calculations, it’s still going to happen anyway. So… what is the next date? Do you see why it’s difficult to accept your dates/calculations?

You have now basically one window of opportunity of only 3 months until election day. Based on what is going on in the country, now that Trump has been literally unmasked and everyone can see that he has always been a phony, Pence has no chance to become Prez other than within the next few months. What is your prediction then?

I do care about daters, but they must be accurate and things have to actually happen. Otherwise, no, I am not interested in them. I never in my life liked fiction.

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Hey Chuck, don’t abandon ship now! You are the last and only one engaged in the “fight”… If not you, who??? :innocent: :sunglasses:

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Oh Henry! So tell us about what went wrong with your date prophecy of April 2, 2020 regarding trump, and Michael Pence standing up. Apparently there was no value there after all?

Oh, wait! I see you’ve found your excuses! It’s always good that a shaky prophet has his excuses ready like ducks in a row, ready to be used as needed… good job!

But please forgive my sinful skepticism, if you don’t mind. Because I don’t believe God is at work in these prophesies.

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Dear George,

I did get the event wrong on 2 April. But the date was not a guess as you like to frame it. And as I read Bible prophecy, the clock is winding down. Michael Pence will be America’s last president and he will bring in the 666 Mark of the Beast! But you cannot testify to that because you have not studied it and found the word of God to say it. Therefore, you will have to wait and see and pray that when it happens, you will have the time to unlearn some things and learn what you missed err this.

As I read Daniel, he says “after a few days” prophetic years “he will be destroyed.” It is talking about Donald Trump. He has been in office a few days “years” prophetically speaking. The world could only tolerate Christs ministry for 1260 days and Donald passed that mild stone on 3 July 2020… it is about time for the transition to Michael Pence.

By the way, here is a little humor to put things in perspective. Someone pointed out online the humor of having Donald and Mickey in the White House. Walt [Disney] would be very surprised to see that Donald had become president. Walt would probably have seen Mickey as presidential material, but Donald?

Humanly speaking you know what you know. But it is till possible for Trump to steal the election and become unable to serve and Michael Pence become Prez in Trump’s second term. I do not know all of the possibilities. BUT I do know that when Prez Michael Pence stands for his people the Time of trouble will begin and soon thereafter Jesus (Michael) will stand for His people. We are at the end of our journey Bro.

Ah… Brother John,
you got in just before I hit the send button. good for you.

Right date wrong event. I’m still reviewing the data.

But don’t get hung up on what I don’t understand. I have a good track record with the short reign of Pope Benedict ending early in 2013 and aligning 14 February 2020 with a mammoth weather event and the start of the COVID-19 Pandemic and the events of 17 May 2020align with prophecy. As Ellen said so eloquently “By their fulfillment in these last days they [Daniel and Revelation] will explain themselves.” There is plenty of accuracy to show us that our watching has not been in vain, unless you want to focus on negativity and make excuses to not watch. That is up to you.

They said that in Noah’s Day until it finally began to rain.

note this statement from Ellen; I put in brackets the activities that COVID-19 impacted:
“There are thousands upon thousands, millions upon millions, who are now making their decision for eternal life or eternal death. The man who is wholly absorbed in his counting room [Banks closed], the man who finds pleasure at the gaming table [Casinos closed], the man who loves to indulge perverted appetite [restaurants closed], the amusement lover [Theme parks closed], the frequenters of the theater [theaters and Movie house closed] and the ballroom [Dance halls and bars closed], put eternity out of their reckoning [Suddenly people have time to get right with God]. The whole burden of their life is: What shall we eat? what shall we drink? and wherewithal shall we be clothed? They are not in the procession that is moving heavenward. They are led by the great apostate, and with him will be destroyed” {6T 406.7} Amazing how God used COVID-19 to halt the devil’s parade!

EGW also prophesied that schools will close.
All schools among us will soon be closed up. How much more might have been done had men obeyed the requirements of Christ in Christian beneficence! What an influence would this readiness to give all for Christ have had upon the world! It would have been one of the most convincing arguments in favor of the truth we profess to believe – an argument which the world could not misunderstand nor gainsay…” {RY 91.3}

And EGW also said that it would be dangerous to live in the cities. If you are thinking of moving to Portland Oregon or Chicago read this:

“Move out of the cities… away from the centers of population. Many now will plead to remain in the cities, but the time will come erelong when all who wish to avoid the sights and sounds of evil will move into the country; for wickedness and corruption will increase to such a degree that the very atmosphere of the cities will seem to be polluted”.–Letter 26, 1907.

Soon and very soon…

This will be indeed interesting to see. I’m not challenging it, it may happen or not. I don’t know, but apparently you know. But I have absolutely no evidence that you really know, therefore, I have to just wait for history to unfold.

I don’t want to disappoint you, BRO, but I need to inform you that I do not have to do any of those things that you say that I need to do. Salvation is NOT about knowing those things or not. If it were, you would be constantly fluctuating between “saved/not saved” due to your interpretations that keep being in error.

So, please, stop telling me that I am in err when I am making no false/fake predictions that are in err. Make it about presenting your POWs, not about scorching others when they don’t find any reason to accept or agree with your suppositions.

This is the way I see it, and I don’t intend to keep going in unending circles on this issue. Remember that I am not one of those fishes that you may be looking for; so, BRO, don’t waste your precious time with me.


How about not prophesying stuff that you don’t understand? Might that be a good place to start?

Ellen Has no credibility with me. Let’s keep the prophetic work limited to scripture.

Done, but nothing to do with Ellen.

Please support that biblically, if you can.


Harry has drawn all his conclusions. If confronted he says “when did I say that”. Clever but it doesn’t ever address his broad brush painting of people. Be they white or black. It’s just attempting to create a world in which he believes can only be true. I don’t have the time to care anymore.


And I don’t have the stomach for this kind of “delusional creativity” either. Done.


How many sentences does a prophet have to copy without crediting before he/she is charged of plagiarism? Legally, just a few sentences would do! Whereas, Ellen White had literally copied books after books. Judge for yourself!


In the final test, those who take the 666 Mark of the beast will be lost! Those who stay faithful to Christ will show that they are truly His and will be sealed by the Holy Spirit and be saved.

People’s professions will be tested and tried. So, if we have the opportunity to learn and prepare for the final test, and fail to do so, we may not be as ready for the test as we think that we are.

Consider EGW’s counsel:“God does not forewarn His people of trifles; the repetition of caution and warnings shows that there is importance in that which was spoken. Do those who claim to want light, treat the light with the respect which is due?” {PC 136.3}

"The condemnation that will fall upon the inhabitants of the earth in this day will be because of their rejection of light. Our condemnation in the judgment will not result from the fact that we have lived in error, but from the fact that we have neglected Heaven-sent opportunities for discovering truth. The means of becoming conversant with the truth are within the reach of all; but, like the indulgent, selfish king, we give more attention to the things that charm the ear, and please the eye, and gratify the palate, than to the things that enrich the mind, the divine treasures of truth. It is through the truth that we may answer the great question, “What must I do to be saved?” {BEcho, September 17, 1894 par. 5}

“If we abide in Christ we must ever be searching after truth as for hidden treasures, in order that our apprehensions of truth may be quick and comprehensive. We shall not then be putting on the garments of resistance, and be prepared to be prejudiced against the very things which we need in our time. Christ is continually unfolding old truths in a new light. The only way in which we will be prepared to have a more perfect apprehension of truth, is by keeping the heart tender and subdued by the Spirit of Christ. We cannot afford to cultivate hardness of heart; for if we are students in the school of Christ, we shall be continually growing in knowledge.” {ST, October 29, 1894 par. 2}

“The work they ought to do they do not do and God will give them no greater light than they have had until they acknowledge the light He has already given them… The Lord will no more excuse the rejection of light in any one of those who claim to believe in the truth in our day than He excused the Jews for their rejecting light that came from the Lord’s appointed agencies. In this our day the refusal to walk in the light leaves men in darkness always.” {1888 301.1}

I am not aware of you pointing anything out to me that is unscriptural. Did I miss something?

I have been blessed by Ellen’s insights regarding the Scriptures and I’ll not loose my blessing because of your incredible bias against her writings. If you choose not to read her when I quote her, that is totally up to you.

Regarding Donald Trump:

Daniel 11:20 “Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes [in] the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.”

Regarding Michael Pence:

“And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant” (Daniel 11:21-22).

You made the claim now give an example of a book that EGW wrote that was really written ENTIRELY by someone else and she claimed to write it, Hint (there are not any).

You are applying plagiarism rules in use today that did not exist in her day and judging her by a standard that was not in use in her day. And by the way, she only had a formal 3rd grade education. When she found something that expressed the thought that she was conveying, it was much easier to use that thought than to reinvent the wheel. And that tactic was even used against Thomas Jefferson.

" Jefferson’s contemporaries engaged in the same exercise, sometimes going so far as to accuse him of plagiarism , in effect. For example, Richard Henry Lee, Jefferson’s fellow Virginian who made the original resolution for American Independence, claimed that Jefferson had copied from John Locke’s Second Treatise of Government."

You’re good at quoting texts but terrible at explaining the connection here. My Uncle Vern used to do that to me, as if quoting a text in and of itself is the connection when it isn’t. So I’ll as you again, what does any of that have to do with the donald? Or mr. pence? The answer is “Nothing at all” unless you see something there none of the rest of us see, and if you see that, don’t you think you are obligated to not only explain the connection but prove the application.

I don’t know… You’re the one who said you did not understand then went ahead and excused the false prophetic interpretation you presented some months back. I’m simply suggesting that in future perhaps try and not present something you don’t understand? :slight_smile:

I’m asking you to prove your prophesies using scripture only, at least when we are communicating here. If you cannot do that, then I am not interested in the prophesies you present. Adventists have always claimed to be “People of The Book” so let’s keep it that way.


Maybe you should consider avoiding throwing “EGW’s counsel” into conversations with people who are bounded to the Sola Scriptura principle. You should certainly Target’s other people with that material because I’m not even reading it so you are actually wasting your time.

I first welcomed you back when you appeared again, but I am very disappointed that you apparently came back again only to teach your theories and not to just participate in the conversations. Therefore, as they say in the Shark Tank, “for these reasons I am out.”

Good bye Henry!


Hmm? I gave Scripture in response to your request…

I did not realize that you wanted me to explain the Scriptures.

Communication is an art. If only we could be understood and understand each other, it would make life simpler.

That makes sense. Why did you not just say so up front.

Daniel 11 begins with 3 kings in Persia. Ezra 6:14 states that it took 3 Persian kings’ decrees to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. From the third Persian king’s decree that aligns with Ezra 6:14 that was issued in 538 BC Daniel 11 gives the 2300 year history of Gods people through Daniel 12:1 when Michael stands for his people. We know that this is a 2300 year prophecy form Daniel 8:14 and Ezekiel 4:6. The prophecy of the destruction of the temple is specifically stipulated in the context “I have given you a day for a year.”

Thus, we have the start date of Daniel 11 at 538 BC; the duration 2300 years as per Daniel 8:14; and the end date of 1844 that correlates with Daniel 12:1 when Michael (Christ stood to confess His people before God and His angels cf Rev. 3:5.)

This was known as the “Great Disappointment”. It is identified in Revelation 10:9 “Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take [it], and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.” The prophecy in the little book of Daniel was sweet in the mouth, but bitter when it did not happen as the waiting saints thought it would, Then comes the command, “Thou must prophesy again” Revelation 10:11.

The prophecy that just ended in Rev 10 was that of Daniel 11-12:1. Thus, the command to prophecy again was a command to that prophecy that took effect in 1844. Since the 2300 years ended in 1844 at 12:1 go back to the beginning of Daniel 11 and read the prophecy that is about to repeat. You will come to Daniel 11:6 “And in the end of years…”

The end of what years? the end of the 2300 years that just ended in 1844 when the command was given to prophecy again. 11:6 “And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king’s daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in [these] times.”

The king of the North in 1844 was Great Britain. It received the title by virtue of the fact that it propped up the Ottoman Empire when it was about to fall to Egypt. The King of the South in 1844 was France by virtue of the fact that in 1798 Napoleon invaded Egypt and left it in a weakened state. The daughter of the King of the South was the Roman Church. The French took the pope prisoner in 1798 and became the protector of the Catholics extending to the Mideast. The Crimean War resulted from this historical alliance between France and Rome. And during the Crimean War France and England that had been enemies for centuries became allies as prophesied.

It is fairly easy to follow Daniel 11:6 thru the 1948 reestablishment of the Jews in Israel and onward to President Clinton and Monika. Then to Trump and Pence and the pending war with America and Iran.

But instead of having me write multiple pages to explain everything, get my book “The Last Trump Shall Sound: Michael Stands.” It has everything that I spent an hour writing out for you here and all of the Bible texts and supporting history that aligns with the Scriptures.

Your scripture did not validate your claim that said scripture was referring to the donald or to mr. pence.

I did.

Again, these scriptures and explanation do absolutely nothing to substantiate your claim that it applies to the donald or mr. pence.

I can only conclude, yet again, that you come here under the false pretense of prophesying and that the prophecies expounded on by yourself are false prophetic utterances.

So we are now back to the real purpose of your participation here, i. e., to sell your book. Why don’t you ask the powers that be here to publish an article and save us all the trouble of individually inquiring as to your purpose and intent here. I’m sure that if your work is worthy of publishing on this site the reception amongst the participants will at least then be of a more constructive nature, having been vetted by those who operate the site.

Until that time, I’m done, over, and out!

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