Prophets in Conflict: Issues in Authority — Book Review

Since the last temptation that will separate God’s people from the want-ta-bees is the 666 Mark of the beast message, do you not see the importance of understanding it and being prepared to encounter it?

Do you suppose that Jesus would have told us to WATCH if there was nothing to watch for?

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. (Mark 13)

LOL… :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Oh John, you sound like almost exploding! I know, if you don’t get out of that kind of interaction in time, you actually can lose it! I was just waiting for the colporteur to offer you a book. And you are not purchasing it? Oh, what a disappointment… :rofl: :innocent:


OK Tim,
I am out, John @JohnCarson is out, Chuck @2humBaby is out. Now you take the baton and keep the conversation going.
When you are done, 4 out of 5 participants will be out… Then Henry will be forced to do a monologue in an empty room.

Well, he can always buy his own book to mitigate his frustration… :roll_eyes: :rofl:


Not even a little bit, unless, of course, it is offered for free…

The Great Disappointment, I’m sure! “…and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

What is gnashing of teeth, anyhow? Someone care to provide a demonstration?


I wouldn’t take advantage of him like that. Therefore I would actually reciprocate by handing him a copy of Walter Rea’s book, “The While Lie.” But it’s only available in pdf format since it’s out of print.


This one?


Another follower of the “Food for worms” prophet! Good luck!
By the way what is the mark of the beast? I found no clue as to what that mark would be from the Bible as yet, neither was Ellen White sure about it, though she talked about it all her life. Finally she said, "The “mark of the beast” still remains to be defined" (GC, p. 445, 1911).


The Mark of the Beast is exactly what Scriptures declare it to be. The beast (USA) will dictate how to buy and sell. In other words the USA will change its monetary system in such a way that it controls buying and selling. President Pence will then link the modified monetary system to Sunday sacredness.

Thus, the deception is to take the Mark of the Beast before it is linked to breaking the Sabbath Commandment. Once people are deceived into taking the Mark of the Beast, they will not be able to opt out when it becomes clear that it is what it is.

Heaven’s command is “do not take the Mark of the Beast” and those who take it will be destroyed by the wrath of God.

Which is more concerning? The control of money or control of conscience through Compliance Committees? Why look to the government when the problem is right in our backyard?


It was the first cover-up cooked-up by White Estate. The prophets works seems to be very cheap, – gathering from what others have written and passing as from God, as though God cannot enable the prophet with right words as promised. For example, my grandson, who is not even three years, can express himself in perfect English of what he wants; what he has seen, heard, and what he has in mind. We only have to put it in the words he spoke! Whereas, EGW was an adult, (17 years old) had some schooling already, could never do that!


Thru COVID-19, God is taking control of His Church (the problem in our back yard). But the union of state and church to compel religious beliefs is the issue that Satan pushed in Heaven. Thus, God’s law of love climaxes in the conflict with the beast that is a agent of Satan.

“the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority… and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?” (Revelation 13:2-4).

To paraphrase an old adage: ABEN convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

Friend, you are so deluded, only TRUTH can set you FREE.


But will you find it in time?

As far as I know, no Bible scholar or theologian has ever considered USA to be the beast of revelation 13, except for the Adventists!

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An identifying mark of the earth-beast (the second beast in Revelation 13) is that
“he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men” (Revelation 13:13).

In the sight of men suggests “eyewitnesses”

America is the only nation that has done that to date. Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII by order of Harry S Truman, who was from Missouri, which happens to be in the heart of the Louisiana Territory that doubled the size of America when it was purchased from France in 1803 (5 years after France opposed the supremacy of the pope in 1798) .

Thus, immediately after the papal beast was deposed from it global authority by France, France facilitated the rise to power of another beast that was linked to a sparsely populated area in the new world.

It is unfortunate that the other Bible scholars or theologians that you refer to are not as knowledgeable about prophecy and history. But Daniel is told that knowledge will increase in the endtime. As it is written, so it is happening.

After I posted this historical confirmation of Bible prophecy, it came to me that Ellen White wrote of America as being the earth-beast of Revelation 13 in the 1880’s (and perhaps before…I did not try to find her earliest reference). So, about 60 years before Truman confirmed America’s identity in Bible prophecy EGW was writing that America was this earth-beast. Regarding her explanation of this Bible prophecy, White was right!

Thank you for sharing that link. Midway thru it, I saw the article’s failings.
It did not recognize our time in biblical history.
The 83 year 4 month Judgment Hours of the dead and living have ended.
We are in the final sealing time with the Mark of the Beast immediately before us.
COVID-19 is a judgment from God and it is not the time to shout “peace and safety”!

I’d share a link about EGW, but the comment is not online in a sharable format (so I must cut and paste)

While discussing the endtimes with a religion major at the non-denominational University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, Ellen White was mentioned. He told me: “You cannot study Christianity in America without encountering Ellen White.” Since the encounter is inevitable, let’s do it.

Ellen G. White

Was she a prophetess? Or a charlatan? She began life as Ellen G. Harmon. Hearing the Baptist Minister, William Miller, who had preached in the early1800’s that Christ’s Advent would happen in 1843 (and then 1844), she believed his message and awaited Christ’s Second Advent twice. But she was disappointed: Christ had not Come! Then she began having visions in 1845. She learned that Jesus had not come at the times that Miller had calculated because the book of Daniel was not predicting Christ’s Advent at those times. Miller had the right times from his study of Daniel, but the wrong event. The correct event was the cleansing of Heaven’s Sanctuary when the books in heaven were opened to confirm the saints’ identity in preparation for Christ’s Advent. For Christ had promised: “He that overcometh…I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.” “And behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be” (Revelation 3:5; 22:12).

Ellen Harmon married James White. They published her writings as the Spirit of Prophecy . Thus, Ellen G. White wrote for 70 years (1845 to 1915). Though she is virtually unknown (you have not seen her on Oprah’s book club), she is undeniably, America’s most prolific woman author.

In the city of Portland, the Lord ordained me as His messenger, and here my first labors were given to the cause of present truth. After a period of despair, the blessed Saviour revealed to me His love, and brought joy and happiness to my soul. When I was but a child, the Lord placed upon me a burden for souls. I worked earnestly for the conversion of my playmates, and at times ministers of some of the churches would send for me to bear testimony before their congregations. After the great disappointment, the Lord revealed Himself to me in a special manner, and bade me bear His messages to His people (RH, May 18, 1911 par. 3).

I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded; I am the Lord’s messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet , but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be His messenger. “Your work,” He instructed me, “is to bear My word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth, I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make My Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and My power shall be with you” (RH, July 26, 1906 par. 5).
Does the Bible forbid Ellen White from being a prophetess? Though White never claimed to be a prophet, she never rebuked anyone, who called her a prophet.

God has put prophets and prophetesses in His church: “He [is] a prophet” (Genesis 20:7), “a prophetess…judged Israel” (Judges 4:4), and “Anna, a prophetess” (Luke 2:36). Paul said: “And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers…Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God” (Ephesians 4:11, 13). Is the church now in the unity of the faith ? No! Did God do away with apostles, prophets, or prophetesses, while keeping pastors, teachers, and evangelists in the church; before the church came to the unity of the faith promised by Paul? No!

Prophesying was withdrawn from God’s people from the time of Malachi to Matthew (450 years). The gift of prophecy reappeared in the Apostles Day. But prophesying has been rare in the past 2100 years. Was that gift to be entirely withdrawn from the church after Christ ascended to Heaven?

I [am] the LORD your God…My people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy , your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My Spirit . And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth (Joel 2:27-30).

I had known of Ellen White before I met that religion major in Chattanooga. In 1970, Ellen’s grandson, Arthur White, showed me the large family Bible that Ellen had held up while in vision. How could a sickly weak teenager, hold an 18½ pound Bible aloft with one hand for a long time? Imagine holding a jug with more than 2 gallons of milk in it high up in the air with one hand while pointing to the label with the other and quoting it verbatim while looking in a different direction. It sounds impossible. But eye witnesses report that a similar event happened. Here is the backstory:

“By invitation of Brother and Sister Nichols, my sister and myself again went to Massachusetts, and made their house our home. There was in Boston and vicinity a company of fanatical persons, who held that it was a sin to labor. Their principal message was, ‘Sell that ye have, and give alms.’ They said they were in the jubilee, the land should rest, and the poor must be supported without labor. Sargent, Robbins, and some others, were leaders. They denounced my visions as being of the devil, because I had been shown their errors. They were severe upon all who did not believe with them. While we were visiting at the house of Brother S. Nichols, Sargent and Robbins came from Boston to obtain a favor of Brother Nichols, and said they had come to have a visit, and tarry over night with him. Brother Nichols replied that he was glad they had come, for Sisters Sarah and Ellen were in the house, and he wished them to become acquainted with us. They changed their minds at once, and could not be persuaded to come into the house. Brother Nichols asked if I could relate my message in Boston, and if they would hear, and then judge. “Yes,” said they, “Come into Boston next Sabbath, we would like the privilege of hearing her” (LS80 231.1).

“We accordingly designed to visit Boston, but in the evening, at the commencement of the Sabbath, while engaged in prayer, I was shown in vision that we must not go into Boston, but in an opposite direction to Randolph; that the Lord had a work for us to do there. We went to Randolph, and found a large room full collected, and among them those who said they would be pleased to hear my message in Boston. As we entered, Robbins and Sargent looked at each other in surprise and began to groan. They had promised to meet me in Boston, but thought they would disappoint us by going to Randolph, and while we were in Boston, warn the brethren against us. They did not have much freedom. During intermission one of their number remarked that good matter would be brought out in the afternoon. Robbins told my sister that I could not have a vision where he was (LS80 231.2).

J. N. Loughborough wrote of this meeting at Randolph to which the Lord miraculously sent Ellen. Loughborough reported the details about this supernatural Bible study in his book, “The Great Second Advent Movement.” This incredible event was God’s response to skeptics, who claimed that Ellen was not God’s prophet. Loughborough wrote:

Remarkable Demonstrations

Sister Ellen was taken off in vision with extraordinary manifestations, and continued talking in vision with a clear voice, which could be distinctly understood by all present, until about sundown. Sargent, Robbins, and French were much exasperated, as well as excited, to hear Sister Ellen talk in vision, which they declared was of the devil; they exhausted all their influence and bodily strength to destroy the effect of the vision. They would unite in singing very loud, and then alternately would talk and read from the Bible in a loud voice, in order that Ellen might not be heard, until their strength was exhausted. And their hands would shake so they could not read from the Bible, but amidst all this confusion and noise, Ellen’s clear and shrill voice, as she talked in vision, was distinctly heard by all present. The opposition of these men continued as long as they could talk and sing, notwithstanding some of their own friends rebuked them, and requested them to stop. But said Robbins, “You are bowed to an idol: you are worshiping a golden calf.”

Mr. Thayer, the owner of the house was not fully satisfied that her vision was of the devil, as Robbins declared it to be. He wanted it tested in some way. He had heard that visions of Satanic power were arrested by opening the Bible and laying it on the person in vision, and asked Sargent if he would test it in that way, which he declined to do. Then Mr. Thayer took a heavy, large quarto family Bible which was lying on the table, and seldom used, opened it, and laid it open upon the breast of Ellen while in vision, as she was then inclined backward against the wall in the corner of the room. Immediately after the Bible was laid upon her, she arose upon her feet, and walked into the middle of the room, with the Bible open in one hand, and lifted up as high as she could reach, with her eyes steadily looking upward, declared in a solemn manner, “The inspired testimony from God,” or words of the same import. And then, while the Bible was extended in one hand, and her eyes looking upward, and not on the Bible, she continued for a long time to turn over the leaves with her other hand, and place her finger upon certain passages, and correctly utter their words with a solemn voice. Many present looked at the passages where her finger was pointed, to see if she spoke them correctly, for her eyes at the same time were looking upward. Some of the passages were judgments against the wicked and blasphemers; and others were admonitions and instructions relative to our present condition” (The Great Second Advent Movement).

Ellen’s prophetic insights have been accompanied by manifestations that testify that God is the Originator of her Bible based messages. Failing to read and heed her writings is like ignoring the speed limit while passing a police car. [ask George & John pp. 5-9]

We second class mere white people cannot care, even if we think we do, simply because we are white.

But one drop, one little drop of blood, just one, and there is hope…
fortunately Jesus blood trumps even any other blood.

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Just some provocative food for thought regarding the MOTB

Did Jesus final words identify it?

"Father, forgive them (all) for they KNOW not what they DO?

Is it possible that claiming we KNOW what we are DOING places us beyond that forgiveness?

Is the “rest of Jesus” the sabbath that we are missing,
as we spend our present 7th days largely by our pageantry, working to prove
we SDA’s exclusively KNOW what we DO?
Claiming we have perfected the head and hand worship, we forego the heart worship desired…

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i don’t want to get my hopes up, but it’s looking to me like pence is going to be a has been come
nov 3…what seems to be happening is that the combination of the pandemic and a looming depression, or an act of god - 2nd quarter american GDP, just tabulated, is the worst of all time - is brushing trump aside, and loosening his grip on power, even among GOP stalwarts, some of whom are openly dismissing his call for delaying the election…

if a biden-rice ticket takes over in january, how does this square with your interpretations…for one thing, there won’t be a literal michael on earth that can initiate the time of trouble…neither joe, susan, vladimir, kim nor hassan fits the bill…