Pure Nostalgia?


(Peter Marks) #21

Mike,

I very much appreciate your imagery of “refurbishing the church” and a “sympathetic conversion” that retains the original character of the dwelling while making it a comfortable and efficient place in the contemporary world. So true!!

In such a scenario, the original pillars of salvation, second coming, sabbath, sanctuary, and thestate of the dead would remain in place.Though the way we express those truths is sure to change with the passage of time.

Some years ago I became chairperson of a Conference Heritage Committee. And I wrestled with the question of why we indulge ourselves in interacting with our heritage. I concluded that the Spirit of God leads individuals, congregations and the sisterhood of same on the battlefield for him. He leads us thru the valleys and again on the mountain-tops of victory. We should look to trace his guidance from the beginning till now. God has not stopped guiding his people.

The LEAD presentations on Thursday evening and Friday of Annual Council certainly provided an excellent glimpse into the beginning decades of Adventism. You can find the powerpoint presentations on the Adventist Review website.

Yet God is still at work for his people! He will yet work with us as we create a “sympathetic conversion” of our spitual home.

In many ways Battle Creek is the place where God’s guidance can be most clearly discerned. In other ways, it is where God’s guidance was spurned to the greatest degree.

And I wonder whether the symbolism of meeting in the Kellogg Arena was lost on our GC leadership. John Harvey and his cohorts actually were in a duel with the GC leadership in the first decade of the twentieth century.

The GC could not have chosen a place symbolizing church conflict better than Battle Creek and the Kellogg Arena within Battle Creek.

In Australia at least the name Kellogg has so many negative connotations to this day as the Adventist Sanitarium cereal brands duel together with Kellogg’s cereals brands. This has been the case for seventy or more years and counting. I once heard a Conference President all but equating the purchase of Kellogg’s breakfast cereals with heresy.


#22

10/25/18 - #2

I am homesick for the good times, good devotions, good feelings and good fellowship I had when I was a conservative Adventist. There is nothing like Adventism!

I assure you, I am reasonably clear-eyed about how flawed it all was, and how destined it was to tank miserably.

Nevertheless, feelings, which the author so seems to mistrust, are my beacon lighting up what was essential in Adventism, and what was chaff.

They are what keeps me in touch with what I see as the carrier wave of the Adventist Vision, and helps me sort out the signal-to-noise ratio, which is an impossible task without feelings aiding Vision.

I don’t expect that to be convincing to anyone else at all. I’m fine owning, and discussing my own narrative.

Rationality is a good servant, but can only take us so far. Rationality without feeling cannot be creative. The bird must fly with two wings.

Yes, I “yearn for a return to a time or state in the past which I remember very warmly.” Anything wrong with that?

Not at all. Who hasn’t yearned to cuddle their little-ones-now-grown again, at least for a moment?

The reason we yearn for these past things is that they water us in the dry periods of our lives, and refresh our vision for the future. Feelings make us human.

That said, the disturbing spectacle in Battle Creek (including Ted Wilson decked out like L. Ron Hubbard in military regalia) was not nostalgia, pure or otherwise.

It was a calculated psychological operation to soften and blur people’s minds, by removing familiar props and cues, and staged in an unfamiliar locale, preparatory to The Vote rolling out the new Adventist Panopticon.

It was the commencement of accelerated brainwashing.

It was an initiation.

It was a sophisticated exercise in depersonalization.

It was an attempt at mass mesmerizing the masses.

If Ted Wilson calculated correctly, David Larson may clean up on his bet.

We’ll see.


#23

10/25/18 - #3

Keep calm…Reactionary in Charge…


#24

We see all aspects of the Reactionary type person on display…


(Ole-Edvin Utaker) #25

Thanks for your critical reflection on AC, Mike! I’ve been reading an essay recently by John M. Manoussakis titled “The Promise of the New and the Tyranny of the Same”. Here he talks about the potential oppressive “weight of an irrevocable past”. The past as a ‘shadow’ that blocks the promise of the future - “follows us and grows on us and it is impossible to get rid of it”, he claims. For Manoussakis, this is an unhealthy backward looking stance. An “archival orientetation”, based on an “archeological logic”, in contrast to the “logic of the new”, the novum, the doctrine of de novissimis" - the “new things” (Rev. 21:5). And here the novum stands for the the eshaton that Jesus proclaimed was ‘now but not yet’, in contrast to the ‘same’ (the past, or the-things-themselves).

There was an unhealthy (theatrical) obsesssion with the past; the things-themselves of Adventism, on display in Battle Creek, as I saw it, inspired by a nostalgic, archeological and archival theological orientation, that threatens the breakthrough of the ‘promise of the new’ in the here and now of Adventism.

And your notion of “freshness of God” (the ‘new’, as I understand it) is very helpful to break out of the shadow of the ‘tyranny of the past’.


(George Tichy) #26

This AC18, taking people back to the beginning times and mood, could have been a great opportunity to restart the SDA Church. But, what happened instead? TW just doubled down, making it much worse now.


(Carlo Schroeder) #27

Nostalgia- how it reeks of oppression, white bearded men, dressed in attire which represented their status in society, boasting how the Lord is converting the “savages” in far off countries. Yes, “savages” who have become brothers and sisters, yet after 150 years - there are some who want to return to the “good old days”. I would like to know what ," good old days "( period of time) are they refering to, because anything before 1994, was oppression to me and many others. So what was this fancy dress party about, it was not about Adventism, because Adventism is fluid, ever changing as light increases, and evolving into a more inclusive and “perfect” message for the world.


(Cfowler) #28

As light increases…why is more light needed. Isn’t the life, death and resurrection of Jesus enought light? I don’t understand this constant searching for something new, something more, more light. Does Scripture tell Christians to look for something more? What more is needed?

Perfect message for the world…The Perfect Message for the world has already been given…it’s Jesus. But, He doesn’t seem to be enough for the SDA church. Why not? What are you (Adventists) lacking?

Just askin’ :slightly_smiling_face:


(Carlo Schroeder) #29

That is a good ask.
This is my personal opinion, which might differ from the next person, the concept of more “light” is referring to a better understanding of the who God is, because having the truth, doesn’t mean understanding the truth, as I grow older, I hope to grow in God, and be able to express God in a way I understand it, but also that it my help others grow to a “better " understanding of who God is on their life’s journey.
Our words and actions are not perfect, but when we believe in God, and allow the Holy Spirit to use us, that is the transforming power that makes a " more perfect message”.
If nobody grew spiritually, then we’re would we be, maybe still in the dark ages.


(Cfowler) #30

I agree that we all grow in our understanding (as we mature), and the Fruit of the Spirit becomes more and more evident in our lives.

But, the way EGW/SDA uses the terms “Present Truth” and “New Light” has more meaning than just the growing in the Spirit as Christians understand growing in the Spirit. It’s more of a gnostic, or secret knowledge, that is outside of orthodox Christianity.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #31

given their mind set they should have worn ascension robes.


#32

Tom, you are so funny! I got a picture in my mind with your comment! Thanks for keeping things cool here. :sunglasses::sunglasses::sunglasses:


(George Tichy) #33

Did they serve oysters at the AC/18??? - :roll_eyes:


(Kim Green) #34

They did…under the antique garb…just in case they were needed. :wink:


(Kim Green) #35

No…they served this instead :wink: :smile:


(Kim Green) #36

And this…:rofl:

https://www.vegetarianworldfoods.com/vegan-lobster.html


#37

If I may interject a thought on this…

Present Truth does not replace but rather refines

Examples include
a) understanding that male only leadership is a human construct or tradition and not a command of God.

b) Sabbath was established by God on the seventh day of the week and while worship and rest can occur at any time this was the day chosen by God. Many Christians simply don’t realize that the traditional Sunday is not a command from God. Conversely many SDA’s don’t realize that you are not forbidden from worshiping God on other days as well i.e. at creation God didn’t say you can’t worship me on other days as well as the seventh.

Present Truth is what we discover about God and our relationship with Him that we didn’t know about before.


(Red Livingstone) #38

My personal definition of “Present Truth” is a little more simple, but not simplistic:

Present Truth is Jesus Christ. He is Truth and He is Present in my life.

So when I mention “Present Truth” in any posting, this is my position.


(Steve Mga) #39

“Present Truth is what we discover about God and our relationship with Him
that we didn’t know about before.”

David – What a Great Definition of the term “present truth”.


(Denny) #40

When I saw the photos of Pastor Wilson and his colleagues it reminded me of one of those Make America great again Trump campaigns and not in a good way. I believe the present leadership is well intentioned, however there is the law of unintended consequences to consider when it comes to maintaining power, be it political or religious