“Queer Eye” and the Divine Gaze: Shame and Grace in 21st Century Worship


(Johnny Carson) #62

I find this fascination, this overwhelming compulsion of pointing out sin in others to be, well, fascinating. As already stated, the LGBTQ person around the world knows, better than any of us, the words of scripture as they apply this topic. The pastor or the layman have no substantive contribution to add when it comes to preaching this message from the pulpit. None. That being the case, wouldn’t the Christian come to the conclusion that there’s a better way to win souls than that of pointing out what they perceive as sin? Aren’t there better ways of relating to others? The desire to rely on pointing out the sin others, as a way of gaining favor with God, has already been tried and proven a failure as demonstrated by the ancient Jews.


(Johnny Carson) #63

If so, them maybe there is another kind of fear, other than failure to point out sin in others, that might be interesting to explore. Perhaps we need the kind of grace that helps alleviate our fears that others are, indeed, sinners of a kind we personally find unpalatable? Perhaps we need the kind of Grace that understands they are experiencing their own exploration of God’s will in their lives, a will that has not yet taken the to a place we, ourselves, are comfortable with? Perhaps we need the kind of grace that alleviates our fear that God is not working in their lives, and which allows us to back off enough so that they can more deeply experience God’s redeeming grace in a way in which they understand?


(Patrick Travis) #64

John,
Respectfully I feel you are missing my main point. We are all judged sinners by scripture. There isn’t a subset just for LGBTQ, Adulterers, fornicators, evil surmising and backbiting & malice etc.,etc… Scripture describes what is opposed to God’s will. My point is we don’t deliberately “earmark” anyone. The faithful pastor who appreciates the sanctity of God’s Word is to proclaim it. That is his/her role as an expository teacher not choosing just ones hobby horse. We are not to politicize God’s Word to special interest groups.
It is a gracious act for scripture to instruct me a sinner and all other sinners of our actions or behavior that is in opposition to God’s Word.
Grace convicts us of our sins and it offers the balm of healing. When we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Confession is not a one time deal. It is something we should realize the need for more the closer we see our savior.
Another point, we don’t have hall passes for any particular group or type of sin as identified by scripture. another article ask, “Are we cloaking Bigotry with scripture?” Are we not to identify murder, adultery, etc. if it is charged it is cloaking bigotry?
A message informing of sin from the pulpit should be done with humility. It isn’t a flippant joke or self righteous attitude.Such attitudes of individual spirit are often, I believe, more harmful than “mere sins of the flesh.” It should simply says, It is written. We must learn to deal with that also when the barrel is pointed towards us. Scripture is not a respecter of persons or our protestations.
Therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God though our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom.5:1
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being made holy. Heb.10:14.
We must all be willing to acknowledge our sin/sins as described not by mankind or society but by God’s Word.
It isn’t about me, you or anyone in particular. It’s the pastors role of faithfully expounding scripture. It is the HS’s role to convict, convert and bring to the foot of the cross…and heal.
Immediately accompanied by the solution for Peace with God in Christ.
Regards from a fellow sinner and traveler in the journey of life.
Pat


(Johnny Carson) #65

And you are missing my point, Pat.

And no, Grace does not convict us of our sin. That’s the law, but who’s keeping score?

“Grace cannot prevail until our lifelong certainty that someone is keeping score has run out of steam and collapsed.” - Capon


(Patrick Travis) #66

John,
Scripturally, Grace instructs and part of that instruction comes from law. “For the grace of God has appeared,bringing salvation to all men,12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.” Titus 2:11-14.
Counting or keeping score is a red herring. No legitimate Christian does. We are saved by grace not a set of scales. We are reckoned righteous by faith in Christ and are called of the HS to grow in holiness.

PS. I haven’t been in a SDA church in 5 yrs. My advice to those who have a continuous problem with a church community should leave it. It’s like spitting in the wind and only hurts us more. Find a home that one feels helps them at their present place in life.


#67

Yes, that “Dire Consequences” threat, spoken at a union constituency meeting in a speech right before a vote to ordain women in that union, which, by the way, passed with over a 70% favorable margin.

When should a threat like that ever be used? When a member rapes a child? Abuse, verbal and/or physical? Pushing heresy like Headship? Murder? Stealing? Breaking the Sabbath? Cheating on a graduate degree? Lying? Plagiarizing? Embezzlement?

No. The “dire consequences” threat is for upstanding Adventist women receiving their community’s affirmation to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ!!! And now we have compliance committees to hold trials and pronounce the guilty as guilty!

Are you in this, Jesus, in any way?

This is so crazy, beyond annoying, and pretty much devastating for one called to the Gospel ministry, that it’s pushing our next generation straight out. It is despicable! Dishonest! Dehumanizing! It’s anti-Gospel of Jesus.

It’s so anti-Christ: “No, you cannot preach, be ordained to spiritual leadership. You must obey the men of the church and be quiet. Your motives are obviously self-aggrandizing. You are seeking to be something you have no right to be. Anyone who ordains or is ordained will receive ‘dire consequences,’ believe me!”

What a deeply troubling attitude for an end-of-time-spread-the-Gospel-to-everyone-ASAP-because-Christ-is-coming Church.


(Tim Teichman) #68

Actually that is not correct. There’s a whole lot of in-between cases, more being discovered by science and medicine on a regular basis.