Reid: At Your Risk

This week’s Sabbath school lesson stands out for being more practical than average. It’s about debt. Except for a grudging allowance for home mortgages and school loans, the lesson strikes a zero-tolerance policy on loans. While it draws on a few scattered biblical texts and some Ellen White quotes to hammer home the point, an odd ideology undergirds this study. At times it feels like a soapbox harangue by someone with a cross of gold on his back.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/12191
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That’s simply bad advice - for both personal and business finance. Leverage is a very, very effective way to solve various financial situations. Somebody didn’t go do business school. Or wasn’t paying attention.

That’s really bad advice. How is one supposed to function without a credit card? A credit card is required for many things: Buying stuff online. Renting a car. Making a hotel, restaurant, and many other types of reservations, and so on and so forth.

Even when not required, using a credit card is often a better choice, for several reasons. See 7 Things You Should Always Pay for With a Credit Card (and a Few Things You Should Never) | Apartment Therapy for some tips.

For the consumer, using a credit card is much safer than using a debit card or a check, and maybe even safer than cash. Few realize that in the early days of charge cards/credit cards, when facing government regulation, the credit card companies agreed to assume the risks associated with the purchasing process, such as having your credit card number stolen or misused. They did this in exchange for permission to charge businesses that accept cards fees on the transactions. The fees are typically about 3% of sales, split between issuing banks, credit card companies, and merchant service providers. Notably, 3% is a huge fee for pushing money around.

When you use a credit card today, you have essentially zero liability exposure for misuse of your account. All of the advertisements you see from one credit card provider or another touting how they make their account extra-special and safe for their card holders are complete nonsense. They’re making things safe for them. When you get a call from your CC company asking about a charge, they’re not protecting you (you’re already protected by law), they’re trying to protect themselves by turning off your card before more possibly-unauthorized charges are made.

If you see something on your statement that you didn’t authorize, you can simply call and say “that’s not mine!” and you’ll get a credit. Every time. Your credit card issuer will reverse the charge and get the money back from the vendor. And, if somehow they can’t, they’ll eat it. They have to, by law. These are unique protections for the consumer that are not at all present when using debit cards, checks, cash (which can be stolen from you or lost), or other forms of payment.

That’s rather a horrible thing to do! And he’s proud of it! Wow.

Money is often a difficult thing to deal with, and even to understand. I found this book quite interesting:

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Follow much of this advice and you won’t be able to buy (or sell). You will never be able to get a credit rating so forget ever renting…

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By the time this ‘story’ line is finished, I wonder if it will be about being able to give more money to the .org? :thinking: :wink:

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[quote=“spectrumbot, post:1, topic:23557, full:true”]

This week’s Sabbath school lesson stands out for being more practical than average. It’s about debt. Except for a grudging allowance for home mortgages and school loans, the lesson strikes a zero-tolerance policy on loans. While it draws on a few scattered biblical texts and some Ellen White quotes to hammer home the point, an odd ideology undergirds this study. At times it feels like a soapbox harangue by someone with

Rather sadly this lesson odebt only focussed on debt within society. Surely he should have used the opportunity to focus on the debt we owe to God for saving us " while we were yest sinners, Christ died for us"??

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Tim…your comments are well-delivered and right on point. Thanks for taking the time to put it together and offer the resources…I’m sure they will be of use to readers.

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Just another example of poorly thought through counsel that misuses the Bible out of its ancient context in ways that don’t make sense for today. The denomination is hamstrung by a bibliolatry that makes a travesty of the Bible and authentic practical and spiritual life.

Clifford Goldstein approves of this??

Frank

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He is the editor of the Quarterly. Would it surprise you that he approves?

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It’s called " we want more of your money"…yes I am a bit cynical!

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The question was rhetorical. The answer is obvious…

Frank

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Yes, think of it! Everyone will give all that money we save on credit card interest to the church.

Uh huh.

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Okay…

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Yeah some of the advice given by the lesson is not practical. We cant practically survive without a credit card and how can you purchase a house or car at a good rate without good credit. I recently negotiated down a car % because of our excellent credit history.

HOWEVER, the problem for the vast majority of us is too much debt and not enough savings. The old recommendation to have 3-6 months of expenses in case of emergency is not followed by the majority of Americans. Taking out a mortgage or car loan is understandable. But so many go way way beyond that. We as a nation are over 30 trillion in debt and that will eventually come due. And as individuals we are carrying way too much debt. So yes maybe the lesson went too far but our danger isn’t going to far in avoiding credit debt, it’s not putting enough limits on our spending. And much of that is discretionary and yes absolutely our fault.

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I don’t know why, but I wandered over to another site that studies the Sabbath School lesson, and tends to be rather conservative. (I get the impression most commenters are not from North America, not that it really matters; I’ve been in plenty conservative churches in North America too.) I had to stop reading, and regret ever looking. It is mind-blowing how many members seemingly just swallow whatever the quarterly says without any critical thought. People just flailing themselves basically for not being ascetics. I probably sound like I’m making fun of them, but I’m not. It genuinely hurt to see.

One person managed to say mortgages aren’t evil, particularly giving the cost of rent in many places. Naturally, they had to be “corrected” with something like “We still need to be sure we are doing what God wants, and not building a 5-story house for our family of 4!” Because “build that McMansion, y’all!” is totally, definitely, what the original person was saying.

Anyway, they were debating that EGW said no loans for anything but mortgages, business, and education. And here the quarterly is, regurgitating it, as though nothing has changed since she died in 1915. Many people need a car to get to work. Quite often, their only two options are a car loan, or buying a junker with too many miles that’s likely to leave them stranded. Meanwhile, the quarterly straight up ignores that reality.

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The quarterly ingnores reality full stop.

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They sound like excellent candidates for SDAism! Pass the Kool-aid!

kool-aid

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I wonder how many SDA’s know that for all her testimonies to the contrary, EGW died about $90,000 in debt? (Around a million in 2023 dollars.)

I haven’t cracked an SS Quarterly in decades but that doesn’t sound like something the editors, Dave Ramsey or Jesus would have encouraged her to do?!?!

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Unveiling the attitude of the authors :slight_smile:

“Some people might have to borrow some money to pay for their education.” - - -“Take only courses that will lead to a job.” - - -

Bible Study Guide - Teachers Edition - 2023 1st Quarter - - Page 63

Which makes them part of the spiral downward of denigrating education, reducing it to utilitarian purposes. Why don’t they get behind reducing the cost of higher education making it financially accessible for all? A dollar value can’t be placed on an educated populace.

Frank

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