Responding to Conrad Vine's "Appeal to Adventist Nobility"

About two weeks ago, Dr. Conrad Vine stepped into Martin Luther’s shoes by delivering an hour-long address titled “An Appeal to the Adventist Nobility.” Luther’s 1520 pamphlet with a similar name was a landmark in the Reformation, attacking what he saw as corruptions of the church and abuses of its authority. Vine’s sermon similarly highlights what he sees as corruptions and abuses of authority.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/11623
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Comprehensive response. Thank you.
This is striking:
“Yet it is a bit difficult to take Vine’s dire warnings seriously when his own organization recently took federal funds. Adventist Frontier Missions, where Vine serves as president, received $250,000 from the US Government in 2020 as part of the Paycheck Protection Program that provided COVID-19 relief. When contacted about the payment, Adventist Frontier Missions confirmed that the organization had received the money and kept the full amount.”

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Thank you, Tom de Bruin, for your valiant attempt to bring perspective to the barrage of distortions coming from the Village Church in Berrien Springs, Michigan. I heard it again in Dr. Vine’s sermon, specious misinformation about the Covid-19 vaccines, a staple element in the messaging coming from these pastors. To think that 80,000 people have watched the sermon–compared to a measly thousand watching sermons from the university church just down the road in Berrien Springs–is sobering. This, from what may well be the most influential Adventist university town in the world! The epistemological and cognitive disruption on this and other subjects within Adventism makes me wonder where this is going to end. Pompous historical analogies (“Appeal to Adventist Nobility”), misinformation about the vaccines (yet again), suspicion about motives (‘federal money’), and then the urge to have the church line up behind these aberrant views. I don’t think this would be possible except for the epistemological nihilism now engulfing the world–disinformation going viral even more than the virus.

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These are my observations about the GC’s response, which I think exhibits exceeding restraint and longsuffering:

  1. There is no mention of the unvaccinated members of Village SDA Church who are now dead from COVID-19 as a result in part of the influence of anti-vax celebrities such as Conrad Vine, pastor Ron Kelly, and the non-SDA guest speaker Dr. Peter McCullough (who has been terminated and sued for fraud by Baylor).
  2. Certain pertinent biblical texts such as Matthew 24:24 are not cited.
  3. Certain words such as “nutcase” and “crackpot” are not used.

Again, I admire the GC’s restraint and longsuffering. But I worry that by responding to Conrad Vine, the GC has inadvertently given his rant more respect than it deserves. Roland Hegstad’s denunciation of John Todd in PMC in the early 1980s was highly successful. The hysteria in the community quickly ended. I don’t think anyone can predict how successful the GC’s response to Conrad Vine will be in effecting a similar outcome at the Village SDA Church.

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Thank the Lord for Pastor Vine to stand up to the assumed authority of the GC and the NAD! Our liberties must be guarded and if our church leaders begin to act like they have authority to make almost doctrinal-like policies we are sending tithe to the wrong place. What were they thinking?! Today’s failure to support civil liberties is tomorrow’s rug-pulling of religious liberties. People may have lost jobs because of those stated “policies”, and those who assumed the authority to post this may have backed themselves into a losing corner of lawsuits.
Guard your hearts and guard your spirit filled body from those who think their body is in control of yours.

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Vaccination is a health/medical matter. Might it not have been better for the GC ADCOM to let the health department to release a statement rather than taking it upon themselves? Let Dr Vine question the medical opinion of the GC health department.

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“Thank the Lord for Pastor Vine to stand up to the assumed authority of the GC and the NAD!” (Guardyerhart). So interesting to see conservatives applauding “non-compliance” when it suits them. It only illustrates Tom de Bruin’s point.

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But forced vaccination or punishments for not being vaccinated is the issue here. Liberties for the temple God gave us is what must be guarded.
The health/medical matter is not the point with Vine.

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Aside from politics, humanity deserves their right to liberty of conscience. So, not really sure why the “conservative” mention is mentioned.

Vaccination is a health/medical matter; its administration requires informed consent. It shouldn’t require an ADCOM mandate to be or not to be vaccinated. If seems that anyone, religious or not, can speak on religious issues.

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A command from Jesus Christ himself: “Do unto others as you would be done by.” LIBERTY does not exist when we ignore the common welfare of others!

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Wait, WHAT? There is an “Adventist Nobility”?? Whoever they are, I wish they would never ever issue ‘statements’ and lets us ignoble little people make up our own minds. All the ADCOMS, the PREXADS, the endless Study Groups, and the GC’s in Session really have nothing to do with me.

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Reality, good medical science and worldwide evidence suggest that getting Covid vaccinations and booster shots and wearing proper masks properly - will help protect your body temple and mine. “Love your neighbor” Christ commanded us. Many hospitals and medical workers are overwhelmed due to this dangerous virus.

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Here’s the “directive” from the GC ADCOM Judge for yourself who is telling the truth.

i think the church’s position, and de Bruin’s, is that individual members cannot claim religious liberty privileges in terms of a corporate church stance, although they can certainly claim them in terms of an individual stance…Vine is conflating these two, and in fact may not understand the difference…he appears to want to have it that because individual members feel their religious liberties are threatened, the corporate church owes it to them to back them up…but the GC ADCOM statement is saying precisely that this isn’t the case…it is saying that just because an individual feels a religious liberty threat, it doesn’t mean they can use the corporate church as legal cover…

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Bingo…this recalls to mind the following egw statement:

“The days are fast approaching when there will be great perplexity and confusion…Every wind of doctrine will be blowing.” RH January 11, 1887, par. 4

the full statement makes clear that Satan is behind the epistemological nihilism…this isn’t something that’s happening randomly, or outside supernatural direction…my sense is that we’re only in the first inning, but we’re definitely in the end game…the end of the world is our increasing reality now…

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No one is forcing you to get vaccinated. If you’re so compelled as to reject science, then simply quit your job, stop attending your class, stop going on a plane, or whatever activity is requiring you to be vaccinated. That is your “choice”. But if you get Covid, I would hope that the institutions who are risking their lives to save yours wouldn’t have to be subjected to your diseased body. Unfortunately, they are required by oath to try and save you from your own stupidity. But they are the ones we should be concerned for, not you, who only care about your “personal freedoms” more than the well being of us, the vaccinated.

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i’ll venture to predict that it won’t make a difference…the 2020’s is distinctly different from the 1980’s…Trump’s GOP has broken through the restraints of reason and basic deference to objective truth, and everyone in its train, including conservative adventists, is following suit…in addition, conservative adventists are upset that the GC hasn’t enforced san antonio…my only question now is whether people are morally far gone, or whether it’s a case of an intellectual deficit - of a genuine inability to understand fact from fiction…

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Covid vaccinations and booster shots and wearing proper masks properly - will help protect your body temple and mine.

On the contrary, the Pfizer and other pharma treatments have been shown by superior science studies that they fail to prevent the infection and transmission of the Covid. Even the CDC has now admitted that natural immunity is many times more effective than them. This now comes out after our government has contributed billions to the pharmaceutical industry for their common good$.
Keep on guarding your body with great healthy food and guard your heart from deception so that you are able to benefit others with your healthy life.

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The SDA anti-vax movement is a repeat of the catastrophe in San Antonio, as both represent a rejection of expertise and spiritual giftedness. Our biblical scholars, together with the women God has ordained to the ministry, were voted down in San Antonio, and today, world authorities in public health and epidemiology are rejected by SDA anti-vaxxers in favor of carnival barkers, crackpots, and grifters.

What drives certain SDAs crazy is that no matter what votes are taken, what large crowds are generated, and what apparent success is enjoyed, the Holy Spirit always wins in the end. Expertise and spiritual giftedness always prevail. As for Conrad Vine and his ilk, their time is short.

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