Responses from Church Entities to GC’s Compliance Attempts and Timeline of Key Events

(Johnny Carson) #63

This is true. I joined the Unitarian Universalist Church for a year or so before we moved to our new location, and while I had some problems with some of the individual viewpoints and doctrines held by many of the congregants, they were such wonderful, giving, forgiving, and loving people. One could only wish for our own Adventist congregations to be like them.

(Kim Green) #64

Sam, I think that you will find much support on Spectrum for a lot of what you are proposing. George, Elmer, John, myself, and many others here have spent years arguing and debating on this site for the rights of the LGBTQ+. I would like to point out that in the “totem pole” (a la SDA church) being a female Pastor is ever so slightly higher than being an LGBT congregant. We all know the reasons for this and have discussed them at great length through the years. You should also note that there are very few regular female participants here because of the ingrained notions of the “role” of a Christian woman. Such is the power of religious culture.

@JohnCarson @elmer_cupino

(Johnny Carson) #65

Thanks for saying that, Kim, and there are others that you’ve not mentioned. Some of us may differ a bit in our beliefs on the issue along the same lines that (I think?) were originally coined by Justin Lee and known as Side A and Side B, but Yes, there is definitely a good sized group of advocates here on the Spectrum discussion boards. @sdaequalitynow1

(Shane Anderson) #66

I appreciate the feedback, Johnny. But though I share some of the assumptions you mention, I come to a different conclusion. Yes, many in the West are intelligent, connected to the realities of real life, etc. But that is precisely why I would not hesitate to encourage them to engage with my local church: Such people can generally tell the difference between a distant (though important) conflict on the one hand, and a local environment that is welcoming and inviting on the other. (At least, that’s the way it works in my neck of the woods–your results may of course vary.)

Hmm, I’m not quite sure I understand your point. I see the church as people, not a building, and consequently, the church is most definitely the instrument (though not The Source) of our and many, many other’s salvation. That’s one reason why the New Testament church grew so rapidly: God was no longer choosing tie His work to a building (the sanctuary), but was now utilizing all Christian believers as His “instruments” of salvation. And that’s why again, I would readily encourage even intelligent Westerners to come to church–that is, to the people of God, wherever they are found.

No argument from me about the validity of meeting people one on one, where they’re at, etc. But I also don’t think we have to choose between intimate versus corporate settings when it comes to sharing Christ. Jesus freely used both. He was often personal (with Nicodemus, for instance) in His approach, and often corporate (Sermon on the Mount, feeding of the 5,000, etc.). I know some people that will never come to Christ in a larger corporate setting, and I don’t attempt to lead them in that direction. But there are others that I have known that struggle with one on one and instead strongly prefer the collegiality and energy of a larger setting (and some of them are now members of our church). It’s a both/and, not an either/or, in my opinion.

Agreed. Idolatry is uncool.

Thanks again for the response, Johnny, I appreciate it.

(George Tichy) #67

I had the same experience being with the Baptists for 3 years, then with the 7-Day Baptists for another 4 years. This was right after the Glacier View fiasco.

Now, living in SoCal, I have no problem choosing from the variety of SDA churches available around here. But if I ever moved to another region…, forget it!

(Peter) #68

Moses took upon himself that which was not in his prerogative - he struck the rock and commanded the water come out of it. Ted Wilson is also taking upon himself power that are not legitimately his - seeking to cause “the shaking” and hasten the second coming.

Moses was then not allowed to enter the Promised Land! And, in the same way, it is time for Ted Wilson to be removed from leadership. He has taken upon himself powers that are not legitimately his.

May God give the Adventist Church a new Joshua to lead us on!!

(jeremy) #69

peter, i’m not sure your analogy between TW and moses holds…notice that it was god who removed moses, not the church…and notice that when god removed moses, he took moses to heaven…and not only that, notice that for the next 1,500 yrs, the church was totally dependent on the writings of moses…

(Peter) #70

Jeremy, Please note that

  1. I did not indicate who should remove Ted.
  2. I did not suggest that Ted will not also be in heaven. He WILL - along with you and me!
    3 I did not suggest that Ted will leave no positive legacy.

My point is that it seems Ted is making a mistake similar to Moses’ mistake.

Ted also seems to clearly be repeating the mistakes of Adventist leadership at the end of the 19th C and beginning of the 20th.

It is NOT the place of any man to cause the shaking - that belongs to God alone - or to hasten the second coming. I believe we Adventist have been mistaken in believing that God depends on us to complete the Great Commission. We should not attempt to force God’s hand - that would be futile.

(jeremy) #71

well the resistance has just broken through the kavanaugh juggernaut, which means conservative inevitability can be successfully confronted…i think PUC and CUC should stand up to what’s happening in the GC, but they need to do it thoughtfully, and intelligently…progressives and partial progressives everywhere have everything to lose…

and i think we should force god’s hand…after-all, we have an advantage that paul urges us to use: if god died for us when we were lost and alienated sinners, how much more is he going to give us if we press him when we’re reconciled to him…

never underestimate the power of collective action that has truth and brains on its side…

(Peter) #72

Dan Jackson (NAD President) said last Sabbath in a Q&A meeting I attended that the North American Division will respond swiftly if Ted’s proposals are approved. That indicates to me that thoughtful, intelligent action has already been prepared. I expect that is also already the case in the PUC and CUC. They are almost certainly ready.

(George Tichy) #73

Oh man, I missed that. I am frequently going to Azure Hills, but could not attend those meetings since I was ojn vacation. Have to check the videos online.

(Thomas J Zwemer) #74

Some years back, Betty and I invited a traveling evangelist toSabbath dinner. Following dinner the evangelist and I took a brief tour of my three acre lot. I asked a number of questions to which I got no reply.Finally he said Tom it is best not to ask questions. Shorty there after he left his wife and married a recent convert of his series in Augusta. That left a lot of unanswered questions. Then Glacier View and the purge. I had all the answers I needed. I did have the opportunity to question Neal Wilson. Again no answers. But I knew the answer—My way or the Highway… I took the highway.

(Cfowler) #75

This all speaks volumes…along with a thousand other things. Plus, with our own reading of Scripture, with our own mind, and the Spirit that we have been promised, things become so much clearer, joyful and peaceful.

I forgot to add, interesting and meaningful!

(Steve Mga) #76

God is not satisfied having only 20 million SDAs in the Kingdom.
God is LOOKING at the 8 BILLION persons on earth and attempting
to find ways to provide their PASSPORTS into the Kingdom.

God, the Father, will know when the time is ready. 20 Million SDAs
are NOT going to FORCE the Father to say YES! to Christ before
He is ready!!
Sorry!! President Wilson and others at Silver Springs.

(Cfowler) #77

Sooo…being a non-SDA Christian isn’t as satisfying to God as being a SDA?

My Goodness! That’s not what my Bible says. Seriously!?!? :scream:

What is the PASSPORT? Being a Sevie? Does God want 8 BILLION Sevies?

Please clarify…I hope I’m reading this incorrectly.

(Robert Lindbeck) #78

I believe @niteguy2 is correct. God wants everybody in the kingdom but not everybody wants to be there. Many in the kingdom will not have heard of SDA, let alone been inside an SDA church.

The “passport” is the blood of Christ and His righteousness. Without that, we will be refused entry. Think - Parable of the wedding feast where the servants went to the highways and byways bringing the poor and homeless to the wedding feast. At the end of this there is one person who comes to the feast but does not wear the gown provided and is cast out.

(Cfowler) #79

Agreed…Christ sacrifice is the way provided for all believers.

Perhaps I misread Steve’s comment…thanks for providing a clarification that makes sense to me!

(Cfowler) #80


I think I totally misread your comment. It sounded to me that you were saying that God was finding a way to add to the 20 million SDA’s by seeking to convert them to SDAism…

But, Robert clarified for me.

i didn’t think that you believed that only SDA’s were pleasing to God, so…sorry for my very wrong-headed misreading of your comment. I should have known better!

(Johnny Carson) #81

Isn’t that so easy to do here with this two dimensional method of communication? Yikes! :slight_smile:

(Cfowler) #82

Indeed…I would much rather actually speak with people than write back and forth. But, this is our medium, so we do our best. :slightly_smiling_face: