Responses from Church Entities to GC’s Compliance Attempts and Timeline of Key Events


(Website Editor) #83

This article has been updated with the latest statements and opinion pieces, and will continue to be updated when/if more statements come out.

Last update: October 10, 2018 at 9:00 p.m. (ET)

-WebEd


(Jamie Timon) #85

“We believe the proposal coming to Annual Council is a departure from the principles set forth in our Working Policy and, therefore, have deep concerns with this new direction and are not supportive of the content of the proposed document to be voted.”

It would be nice to add an editorial remark that the emphasis was in the original publication on this quote.


(George Tichy) #86

ANOTHER ONE! Now it was the Czecho-Slovakian Union Conference.

Ahhh, yes, the Czechs and the Slovaks!!! Yes! Don’t mess with them!
I knew they would come up with a protest sooner or later. They were under the Soviet rule for about 40 years, they can smell it when freedom is being taken from them. They won’t submit to some crazy rule being imposed on them within the Church. They had enough with the Russians!
(I am Czech, so I warn you… :wink: :wink: )
Here:

https://atoday.org/another-union-conference-expresses-concern-about-gc-compliance-proposal/


(David R Larson) #87

Very helpful chronology. Also, more generally, where would we be without the independent journalism of “Spectrum” and “Adventist Today?” They are needed now more than ever! Thank you!


(Website Editor) #88

Thanks, @GeorgeTichy. We’ve published the statement to our site here: https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2018/czech-slovak-union-votes-declaration-against-gc-compliance-document

And it’s been added to the above article as well.

-WebEd


(Saffert) #89

Hi everyone,
I’ve been following the lively discussion here a couple of days now and it still seems to me that most - if not all - are missing a crucial point about the separation of powers. In particular, the GCC as executive is confused with the GC Session as legislature.
It seems odd that SDA church government is blamed for enforcing the laws of its own legislature, something that would rarely happen in civil society where everyone expects the executive to do exactly that (i.e. enforce valid laws).
You will find further details in this concise little treatise aptly titled Church Law and Insubordination.
Enjoy the read-up and God bless.


An Interjection
Springwood Seventh-day Adventist Church in Australia Voices Concern Over GC Compliance Document
Czech-Slovak Union Votes Declaration Against GC Compliance Document
(George Tichy) #90

Thank you WebEd (whoever you are… LOL).
You are doing a great, superb job putting together a marvelous document about all that is happening. This is part of the SDA history - unfortunately a very sad one.

But I am hopeful that we will have happier and more encouraging days ahead. One day…


(Johnny Carson) #91

Eugen, thanks for sharing. Interesting comment and documentation.

To my way of thinking this approach is a carbon copy of that of the Jewish leaders leading up to the time of Christ and his crucifixion. It was all about the law and the technicalities that surrounded the discussion of the law. This was all done in the search for a superior justification for selfishness and at the expense of the people Christ came to free. Give it some thought.


(George Tichy) #92

Exactly! This is not just about applying some sordid set of laws/rules created by a group of human beings, basically only males.

We are dealing with discrimination of women in a religious (church) context, and worse, with an attempt to subvert the current authority of the Unions by taking their authority away. This is deplorable behavior on the part of the GC.


(George Tichy) #93

Eugene,
Do you support discrimination of women in Church?
No need for explanation either way, please just mark
____ YES … … ____ NO
Thanks


(Kim Green) #94

Brother Eugen shared the following with me:

" Dear @cincerity,
you might stand with them but as it seems on the wrong side nonetheless.
Take care (you know - follow the link) and God bless.

I think that this may be a strong “clue”. :smiley:

@JohnCarson


(George Tichy) #95

Well, he @Eugen joined the Spectrum forum today. As anyone else, he is more than welcome. Welcome Eugen!

However, I have the feeling that coming and telling others right away that they are on the “wrong side” is not a very wise move. It’s passing a judgment without even being aware of what people here know or not. It appears that he assumes the we don’t have enough/current information about the issues discussed. Thus, he is already offering help… Hmmmm…

Not sure it’s going to work for him… Will see…


(Johnny Carson) #96

Yes. It appears that our brother is here as a missionary. Perhaps he did not notice the mission statement in the logo, “Community through Conversation”


(George Tichy) #97

Well, let’s see if he answers my question @ post #90


#98

Hello Eugen Saffert. Thank you for raising this interesting topic.
The Adventist Church is a normative organisation and there is really no one-to-one correspondence in structure to a civil government, where, in most western democracies, there is a separation of powers. There is the legislature (making laws), the executive (putting laws into action) and the judiciary (interpreting laws).
This constitutes a system of checks and balances.
The GC, it appears, wants to have not only ‘a finger in each pie’, but CONTROL what goes on in the whole ‘pie making business’.
On another point, valid laws, (as for instance in the former Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, or other totalitarian regimes) do not necessarily equate with just laws, particularly when they are ENFORCED.


#99

@Eugen, Welcome to Spectrum! We enjoy engaging in conversation here.

You seem concerned that the SDA Church administration needs to enforce “laws” or would you agree, Fundamental Beliefs of its membership.

Could you comment on the vast changes recently in Trinitarianism with many anti-women in spiritual leadership voices actually embracing the non-Trinitarian view that Jesus is not an equal part of the Godhead?

This seems to be the real crisis, yet I have seen no Compliance Committee set up to address this major change from a fundamental belief.

To join with those who disparage women in ministry, one would be violating Fundamental Belief #14. Is that something that you agree with?


(Saffert) #100

@harrpa, thank you for your warm welcome.
Please excuse that I will not engage in discussion of any of the points you raised. They can be settled once the issue that plagues the church is well understood and remedied: The legal rules of the game. I do not like repeating - just follow the link.
Enjoy the read-up and God bless.


(Saffert) #101

Dear @GeorgeTichy,
you have fallen for the trap. What a great example that will be for all our readers.
I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell me, I in like wise will tell you my answer.

Do you support lawlessness?
No need for explanation either way, please just mark
____ YES … … ____ NO

If you are unsure where my question came from just follow the link.
Enjoy the read-up and God bless.


(Saffert) #102

Well, he did - who would have thought?
By the way - when you click the link icon you are presented with a link - hence the name :slight_smile: at whose end you find a number which identifies the post. It has been and still is #93


(Robert Lindbeck) #103

@Eugen, spruiking your own work as a defense doesn’t hold a lot of water. It is a cheap way to try to buy legitamcy for you position. As bad as writing a scientific paper, then quoting from it as scientific proof.