Responses from Church Entities to GC’s Compliance Attempts and Timeline of Key Events

(George Tichy) #104

Are you here to interact or to preach by promoting your links? Just wondering…


All the delegates to the 2018 GC Annual Council need to read EGW statement for them=

“All the compelling power is found only under Satan’s government. The Lord’s principles are not of this order. He would not work on this line. He would not give the slightest encouragement for any human being to set himself up as God over another human being, feeling at liberty to cause him physical or mental suffering. This principle is wholly of Satan’s creation. {par. 7} The principles of the character of God were the foundation of the education constantly kept before the heavenly angels. These principles were goodness, mercy, and love. Self-evidencing light was to be recognized and freely accepted by all who occupied positions of trust and power. They must accept God’s principles, and, through the presentation of truth and righteousness, convince all who were in his service. This was the only power to be used. Force must never come in. All who thought that their position gave them power to command their fellow beings, and control conscience, must be deprived of their position; for this is not God’s plan.{par. 8} These principles are to be the foundation of education in God’s church today. The rules given by him are to be observed and respected. God has enjoined this. His government is moral. Nothing is to be done by compulsion. Truth is to be the prevailing power. . All service is to be done willingly, and for the love of God. All who are honored with positions of influence are to represent God; for when officiating, they are in the place of God. In everything their actions must correspond to the importance of their position. The higher the position the more distinctly will self-sacrifice be revealed if they are fit for the office. Every heart that is controlled by these principles will be loyal. But when those who profess to be in God’s service resort to accusation, they are adopting Satan’s principles to cast out Satan; and this never will work.” {par. 9}

RH, September 7, 1897 The Great Controversy

(George Tichy) #106

I am starting to be concerned with your attitude. Because you are NOT answering any question you are asked, rather directing everyone to your writings. We had a guy here just recently who actually said that he does not answer questions either, he only asks questions and teaches others. Basically the same you are doing. And, of course, it didn’t work well for him, it appears that he got tired of being asked questions…

You didn’t yet answer my question on post #90, and you have the nerve to ask me a question? Well, I have no problem in doing that. You asked me,

NO, I don’;t support lawlessness. But I don’t support any coercive form of government either, this is the main point. And I do not support politicking and maneuvering of the crowds either. And I also do not support people who do not answer questions… perhaps you know someone like that, uh?.. :roll_eyes:


You just came in and you already know everything about everyone here? WOW!!!
Sorry, “our readers” (as you called them) know me for many years here, and they know I do not fall for traps. So, just be careful with what you post/teach, because I may be asking you more questions… and it appears that you don’t like questions, uh? :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

(George Tichy) #107

Time for another quiz: :open_mouth:

Are you a LGTarian? (A LGT believer/supporter)
_____ YES … … _____NO

(Kim Green) #108

Eugen may not have the time for YOUR quiz…did you follow his “instructions” by:

(1) Clicking on his link and reading?
(2) Accepting that he will not engage in any topics other than the ones he deems most important like the “Legal Rules”??


(Saffert) #109

Dear @JohnCarson,
thank you for encouraging individual thinking instead of carbon-copying others’ thoughts. Here is what my way of thinking yielded.

Christ had utmost respect for the law for He had been its giver. Not once He argued with the pharisees against the law that they intended to apply against him. He always argued against their false accusations and witnesses. If you read DA chapters 75 and 77 (Before Annas and the Court of Caiaphas - In Pilate’s Judgment Hall) you will witness their great legal debacle. No law could be wielded to bring down its creator.

What do we learn from Christ for our times today?
If leaders are wrongly accused - as was Christ - I hope we do not fail to vindicate them. If, however, the charge brought against them is right we need to work up the courage to bring them to trial in vindication of the law. We owe this to all the onlookers who would otherwise think of us as a bunch of hypocrites, just as the pharisees were - and rightly so.

(Johnny Carson) #110

I would encourage you to read it all again, My Friend, with an open heart and mind. There are occasions when he argued against the letter of the law as interpreted by the pharisees when it abused the vulnerable. This is quite undeniably, the exact same thing that is happening to day by many within the church; they are arguing against the letter of the law when it fails to in love, recognize humanity. All the peer reviewed Google documents in the world cannot negate that fact.

(Saffert) #111

Dear @robelle,
what you refer to is called Circular Reasoning. It is indeed a serious logical fallacy, however, I am not guilty of it :slight_smile:. All I have done - in the interest of brevity - is referring dear @harrpa to a statement I had made earlier on this forum which cites from credible sources just as you demand - and rightly so.

As I am - from time to time - also a scientific writer I have to set you straight on citing these:
One may legitimately cite one’s own papers if they have appeared in peer-reviewed journals. In fact this is common practice - again in the interest of brevity. The point is peer-reviewed. Once your peers have reviewed your ideas and proceeded with publishing them those ideas have become part of the state of the art and might be freely cited - including by yourself.
I hope that was of any help.
Take care and God bless.


Eugene, re. #107
Yes, quoting from one’s own work is legitimate, but it does not necessarily support
the credibility of the work, UNLESS one is a recognized authority on the subject.
Furthermore, peer review is useful/valid only when guaranteed by the credibility
and expertness of the reviewers. (How do you ‘score’ on this?)

(Saffert) #113

Dear @GeorgeTichy just answering …

Well, initially - when I decided to join - I did have a little insight that I wanted to share with the nice and friendly people here - but to call that preaching would be really - I mean - r e a l l y overstretching it.

So what what do you mean by interacting?
After all, you are not going to pay my airfare to join you in a match of tennis - do you?
Or do you want me to set up a chess board for a match or two?
Well, you probably mean that one should take as much as one gives in the exchange.

Rest assured I do my fair share of learning while I am here.
How often have I come and asked myself: Who does this George guy think he is?
And went away in peace with the answer: Oh, he is just into old uniforms from the Nazis.
How lucky a man to not be under German jurisdiction were he would be taken off the forum for such postings.

Anyway and seriously. I do enjoy it here.
Thanks pal for all your support and encouragement - we’ll be best friends in heaven, so let’s hit it hard here on earth.

Yours truly
Trivia: I have SDA foster parents in the UK who immigrated there from the West Indies.
So if you are mean to me I’ll tell Big Mama - and boy - will you be sorry. I tell you.

(Steve Mga) #114

What do you mean “If leaders are…accused…we need to bring them to trial”?
How would you suggest this be done?
WHERE would you suggest this be done?
HOW would you suggest we get them to show up if summoned?

(Saffert) #115


dear @GeorgeTichy has admonished me to answer more of people’s questions so here you go:

  • Firstly, I was not quoting myself - I was referring to myself which is not the same.
  • Secondly, a peer-reviewed work is what it is - a piece of work whose value was recognized by others. Just as a single swallow does not make a summer - so does a single piece of good work not make an expert. But you may quote from it nonetheless. It is mostly done in the interest of brevity anyway and not to highlight one’s former achievements.
  • Thirdly, yes, there are good journals with real expert reviewers and not so good ones with less qualified reviewers. There is a place for everything.
  • Finally, I am not sure what you mean by ‘me scoring on this’, but if you should mean what journals I am currently publishing in - the answer is easy: none. My scientific writing is done for clients who want classy work but not have it published because of IP protection.

I hope that was helpful.
Take care and God bless.

(Saffert) #116

I am delighted. (Your first quiz will be answered next - I’ll promise).

I have little problem here: Did you leave the B out on purpose?
Or was it an accident?

Assuming LGBT is meant my answer is as follows:
As I am into agape rather than eros LGBT is of no concern to me.

If LGT is something I have missed so far, please enlighten me.
Yours one and only.

(Saffert) #117

Dear @GeorgeTichy,

you probably know by now that I do not support any discrimination of women - neither in church nor anywhere else.

However, I would like to appeal to my dear SDA lady-friends and all of their supporters around the globe to peacefully pursue their course of action - just as MLK or Christ himself would have done - which means respecting all the laws the SDA church has made until their revision by GC Session.

Thank you for your patience and kind consideration of my appeal.
Your brother in Christ


Eugen Saffert, re. #112
LGT s shorthand for Last Generation Theology. We understand if not all global
viewers are familiar with the English acronyms in use. Your response did raise a
smile though, even if it was (un)intentional.

(Saffert) #119

Dear @niteguy2,

let me begin with quoting myself because your citation did leave out vital parts.

If leaders are wrongly accused - as was Christ - I hope we do not fail to vindicate them. If, however, the charge brought against them is right we need to work up the courage to bring them to trial in vindication of the law.

Please, further note, that I start with making provision for people wrongly accused. Just in case it has slipped through your attention. Bring them to trial means to take disciplinary action openly. We are talking leaders = church officers here, not members.

As far as I am aware of the church manual has an entire section on discipline. I would like that and possibly all other church recommendations on counselling the erring to be followed.

At the place most convenient for both sides.

As long as the church is still paying a salary it will know how to get them to show up.

I am not really an HR expert, but I am sure the church will find one that will handle such cases.

(Tim Teichman) #120

At times, when laws are unjust.

(Saffert) #121

Dear @timteichman,

that was a trick question with no real answer - I put it up for @GeorgeTichy when he tried to trick me.

I understand what you mean but what you say is a logical impossibility. Just as a woman cannot be a little pregnant, you cannot choose lawlessness at times or concerning some (unjust) laws.

But you need not despair in your opposition to unjust laws. There are many legitimate and effective ways to express it. One of the most powerful is civil disobedience advocated by MLK. Some SDA leaders thought they could be disobedient for us which is even worse than being a little pregnant.

Just keep in mind that human law is human made and can be changed at any time (by those in charge of it).

Take care and God bless.

(George Tichy) #122

No, no “B” left out. I am talking about LGT = Last Generation Theology.
Does it ring a bell, or not? If not, then just never mind.

(George Tichy) #123

Well, now I have to say that it is a crazy statement. I was not trying to trick you. How did you come up with this one? Are you that paranoid, thinking that everyone here is engaged in catching you on something? :roll_eyes:
It will be difficult to continue a dialogue if you keep such a defensive attitude.